A&M was #4 before any games were played.  We were #4 on 2/22, with 2 and 1/2 weeks left in the season, then Young got hurt and we didn't have enough depth to make up for it.

Washington went from top 150 HS kid to the NBA in 3 years.  Branham went from a non-starter to a 1 and done in a year. 

yeah, it was such a terrible coaching job choosing to run plays for your best scorer and getting your team ranked #4 in the nation.  Just awful. 

I don't know that he is a wiz.  I know he's drawn up plenty of plays that ended up in good looks and I know enough about basketball to understand that the play against Purdue was poor execution and that a lot of coaches will use isolation with their best player to get the last shot with the game tied.  Arguing otherwise simply shows rigid bias. 

Offensive efficiency ranking under Holt (via KP): 23, 84, 13, 4, 13, 6.  You will be hard pressed to find more than a handful of programs that can match or better those numbers.

The Rutgers game was rough.  The offense has been pretty efficient this year otherwise.

I mean you can ignore all the accomplishments each season and how much it improved over Mattas last couple of years, its your prerogative.  You complain about lulls during the season, but then act like its no big deal that you make the tourney every year when programs like Duke, UK, UNC, AZ, UCLA, etc don't accomplish that.  Winning in college basketball is hard because talent is more evenly spread.  Do I think that means we should settle and that what Holtmann has done is good enough?  No.  I also understand that other than year 1, there have been extenuating circumstances each year. 

The incoming talent is improving.  He's gonna get a chance to show if he can elevate the program with better talent.

I realize expectations at NW aren't great at NW, but in 9 seasons he has only qualified 1 time for any post season tourney (NCAA, NIT, CIB, etc).  Let me repeat, in 9 seasons he has only had 1 without a losing record.  Add that he is worse than his predecessor (Carmody) at NW who actually built the program into something somewhat respectable.

I don't think he's a bad coach and seems like a good guy, but no way we'd get rid of Holtmann for Collins.

I think my point was that losing 4 games in a row can happen to the best of coaches in the best of programs.  If you were ready to fire Holtmann before the 4 game losing streak based on his prior years performance, fair enough.  But I don't think a 4 game stretch where a key player was injured and essentially missed 2 games isn't the reason to formulate such an opinion.

I take exception to the idea that he hasn't accomplished anything in 6 years.  He had OSU ranked in the top 10 during 3 of those seasons and was as high as 13th in the 2 others which is a significant improvement to where the program was the 2 years prior to his hiring where we weren't ranked at any point in the season.  Granted, he hasn't accomplished the big goals at the end of the season in 4 seasons (one was cancelled, the 6th is still in progress), but I think he's done enough to show he can coach.  Heck his name was mentioned as a possible replacement for the Celtics job just a few years ago.

To be clear, you missed the salient point (I'll take responsibility since it was dressed in sarcasm).  sometimes coaches set up good plays and players fail to execute.  Sometimes calling a TO to set up a play allows the defense to regroup and prepare. 

 I ignore all of the execution at the end of games in close wins and only focus on those where the play failed.

Well, we can cross Bill Self off the list.  Just called TO's at the end of regulation and overtime and drew up plays for his team to turn the ball over.  didn't even get a shot off.  Gotta be an awful coach if you design those plays.

Lebron James has something like a 12% success rate when attempting a game winning or game tying shot in the last 5 seconds of a game.  He and his coaches must really suck.

There have been plenty of successful last second plays under Holtmann.  Some the players made, some they missed (Washington had a play run for him where he missed a layup, then a few games latter same play he made the layup).  Just because a player missed the shot or didn't execute it properly doesn't mean it wasn't a good play.

And everyone (that cared about women's basketball) wanted McGuff run out of town a few years ago.

Just for perspective, UNC was the #1 team in the country pre-season and lost 4 games in a row earlier in the year.  Now granted, none of those 4 losses were to a team as bad as MN, but they also have 11 top 100 RSCI players and a ton more experience (playing together) than we do. 

The last couple of weeks haven't been good for sure.  My perception before the season began was with so many new faces and 4 frosh playing significant roles, that it was going to take time for the team to figure things out.  I'll put off the cliff diving until the season shakes out.

Purdue was losing and didn't hold for the last shot.  They ran a play for their best player who is a big who requires the ball to be passed to him in the post and can't run isolation.

MSU was running a designed play that they ( and every team practices) for late game situations with 1,3, 5 seconds left and the full court to travel.

I'll say it again since it seems it wasn't understood.  When the score is tied, you want to take the last shot at a very specific time that gives you a chance to get a put back, but doesn't give the other team enough time to score in case you miss (roughly with 3-4 seconds left).  IF you run a play for the person you want to take that shot and the defense takes it away, you now only have a few seconds to get off a shot and its typically not a good one.  This is why most coaches when in the situation of a tie game, will isolate their best player because its easier to control when the shot will be taken and guarantee that you have your best player taking that shot.

Fair enough you disagree.  Doesn't mean there is one solution and that either is wrong.

Just for more perspective.

- year 2 was rough due to recruiting in Thads last 2 years ('15 class was gone from the program before Holt got here and '16 was probably Thads weakest class). 

- Year 3 wasn't a bad year, reached #2 in the nation early on, then Carton went AWOL and injuries pilled up.  We still ended up in the top 20 and woulda been a 4/5 seed had the tourney occurred. 

- Year 4, reached top 4 in the nation and were ranked 4th through mid February then Young got hurt and Washington chucked up bricks in the NCAA tourney game.

- Year 5 was hit by injuries again.  Sueing and Towns out for the year, Young, Meechie and Brown missed time the second half of the season.  Finished 4th in the conference, won a tourney game, so hard to say it was a bad year.

- This year was always going to be a rebuilding year with the number of departures and only 2 guys who played the previous year returning.  Incoming class is good and flashed early.  Transfers were solid pick ups for depth/experience, but no "game changers".  Going through a rough patch with a couple of poor effort games (MD, MN) and a couple of tough luck games with Key getting hurt against Purdue and some really crappy reffing at RU (watched it at least a dozen times and still don't know what that call was on McNeil that gave them three foul shots).

I get it, lots of folks think its a failure of a season if you don't win the conference or make the FF.  Those folks will never be happy and are the same types that were complaining when Thad fell short in the NCAA tourney and would have been calling for coaches like K, Wright, etc to be fired after their first three seasons.  I do think Holtmann needs to show that he can elevate the program in the next few years.  He's elevated recruiting and will get a couple of years to see if that recruiting leads to better results.
 

Dont know what you are referring to against UNC.  The play was drawn up for Sensabaugh, he hit the go ahead shot with 2.1.

Purdue was a disaster.  As stated, it was poor execution, not poor design.

Most coaches in the country at the end of a tie game will put the ball in the hands of their best playmaker/player and let them go.  The reasoning is you want to take the last shot with about 3 seconds left so you have a chance for a rebound, but the other team has no time if you miss.  If you try to run a play to get a shot with 3 seconds and the defense defends your first option, you end up with a bad shot or no shot at all.  Fair enough if you don't like it, but thats what the vast majority of coaches in college and the NBA will do.

I don't think we've had superior talent at OSU from the beginning of his tenure.  My biggest complaint about him has been his recruiting and whether he can recruit well enough to take us to the next level.  Last year had 2 really good players, but the supporting cast was not that strong.

Recruiting is 100% on the coaches and frankly wasn't good enough years 2-5 (gets a bit of a break on the first 2 classes due to late hire and state of the program).  It seems to have picked up.  Had a 1 and done last year.  Have a 1 and done this year and 3 guys that should have very good careers at OSU if they stick around.  Next years class again has top 60 guys that are likely to be hear at least 2-3 years.  He's going to get a chance to see what he can do with better recruiting classes.

I thought he sounded like a coach that was trying to be patient, but a bit exacerbated by players not following his instructions.  I mean when you make it clear coming out of a timeout that you are in a 3/4 court trap and 30 seconds later after a made basket 3 guys are jogging down the court with their backs to the ball, what are you to do?  I think people fail to understand the challenge coming into the season with 7 new faces in the rotation and 2 of the three returnees that you hope can lead the team missed significant time over the summer and pre-season.

I get that some would like him to tear into guys, but thats just not his MO.  He's gonna get through next year at least, so we'll see how it plays out.

Wright had the same number of top 100 RSCI players Holtmann did their first years at their schools.  Wrights 2nd and 3rd years he had 8 top 100 RSCI players and they didn't make the NCAA tournament.  There is no doubt Wright recruited better early on than Holtmann, but be honest, if Holtmann had missed the NCAA tourney each of his first three years with the talent Wright had, the 11W gurus would have all been calling for his job.  No doubt Wrights 4-6th year were better than Holts, but his first three were clearly worse.

Holtmann is just now recruiting well enough to compete nationally, but the first class are just frosh.  Years 1-3 exceeded everyones expectations given the state of the roster.  Year 4 was cut short by Covid.  Year 5 was a really good year as we reached top 4 in the nation through the middle of Februrary, then the injury bug hit and Washington shot poorly in the NCAA tourney.  Last year was an OK year given the injury situation.  This year was a question mark coming in due to the 2 best players declaring for the draft and a whole bunch of graduations.  The team has reasonable talent, but the team doesn't have cohesion on either end of the floor.  We'll see how the season plays out. 

I get it, post season success is all non-basketball centric fans care about and admittedly, it is the most important part of the season and where coaches earn their money.  Holtmann's contract goes through 2028.  He's going to at least get one more year to show what he can do with better recruiting classes and I'm fine with that.

What are you talking about?

- Against UNC, The play was to get Sensabaugh the ball going down hill and get into the lane for a pull up.  He hit about a 12 footer with 3 seconds left to put us up 2. 

- Against Purdue, the play was for Brice to come off a screen with the anticipation that Edey would collapse which he did.  Brice would have the option to take the 3 or drive for a pull up.  Thornton after dribbling left, turned and dribbled toward Sensabaugh bringing his defender with him which blew everything up.  Bruce didn't execute correctly.  Sensabaugh also didn't execute correctly as he didn't wait for Okpara to get to him with the screen, so the screen didn't occur as wide as it was supposed to, again bringing the defenders closer together.

- Against Rutgers, Holtmann chose to put the ball in his best players hands instead of calling a TO and allowing the defense to set. We had run two sets for Key late in the game after time outs and he missed both of them from each block.  He was yelling at Brice to drive the ball to get fouled or go to his pull up.  Brice made the choice to take a 26 footer, not the coaches.

Its my understanding his buyout is over $12M.  Oats certainly wouldn't pay it, so it would be on the school trying to hire him away that would have to pony up.

Holtmann only spent three years in the Big South.  Kelsey didn't win anything in his first three years in the Big South.  They actually coached against each other in the same league for a year with Holtmann going 11-5 and Kelsey going 6-10.

In 17 years as head coach, he's never made it to the FF and missed the tourney 8 out of 17 seasons (2 posts seasons were vacated for cheating).  He spent 12 seasons at a program that compares favorably to OSU, no FFs, 4 tourney misses and 2 tourney's vacated.  Because he won a weak P12 a few seasons isn't good enough given the negatives.

I think he can coach.  I see nothing in a fairly long career that tells me he's better than Holtmann.

OSU did not lead nor ever has led the B1G in conference titles.  We were tied for second with IU if you include the 2 vacated co-champs under O'Brien (which neither the B1G nor the NCAA recognizes).  We have 20 conference titles, tied for third.

Other than that, I do agree that OSU is a top 20 program, but probably in the third tier of NCAA basketball programs.

So Kelsey hasn't accomplished anything of note.  Solid coach at a low mid, 17-15 last year at CoC.  Pretty much the same as hiring Holtmann.

Oats not much of a track record either.  Did a good job in fairly short stint at Buffalo (was assistant under Hurley who left for ASU) and did win a couple of tourney games.  I'm guessing the main reason he's on the list is because he's having a good year this year, not that he's necessarily accomplished much in his career.  Biggest obstacle with him is large buyout that OSU would be on the hook for and the reason AZ didn't pursue him as hard as some others to replace Miller.

In 17 years, Miller has never been to a FF and missed the NCAA tourney 6 times (8 if you include the vacated seasons for rules violations).  Other than recruiting (through nefarious actions) how is he better than Holtmann?