Holtmann should be a dead man walking, if not for that horrendous contract extension.
And Sueing…just woof. Any team counting on him to be a top 2 scoring option is going to struggle more often than not.
More of the same from Holtmann, yet again. Time to bite the bullet and move on, Gene, cause this guy isn’t it. He’s a nice guy and recruits fine, just a lousy coach.
I thought maybe that Holtmann had turned the corner and that this team would be good. Pretty sure this coming Sunday will be another loss. Holtmann is a nice guy, but Ohio State can and should do better.
No, he's saying that the two most consistent basketball teams of all time hired two guys who've never won a championship, as much as saying your argument is dumb...Holtmann has been a terrible in game coach this year without a doubt, losing to Minnesota at home is flat out inexcusable... But putting words in other peoples mouths to prove your point kind of defeats the purpose eh? or maybe its just willful ignorance...
Yeeeaaaahhhh, but it's not like those two programs were the most consistent programs of all time BEFORE those hires. Those hires worked out and they became dynasties. Whatever the case, this apples to oranges. We aren't finding a Dean Smith or Coach K today.
Coach K missed the tourney his first 3 seasons while compiling a record of 38-47. In todays environment, every fan would have been calling for his firing and pretty much every program today would have fired him.
I don't think Holt should have total job security. He performed very well with limited talent his first 2 seasons with holdover talent (figured out how to use the talents of Tate and KBD better than Matta). The 3rd season was cancelled before the post season. Season four saw us climb all the way up to number 4 in national rankings (was #4 at the end of February) then Young got hurt and we didn't close out the season well. Last year was a decent season especially given injury issues (no Sueing, no Towns, limited Young), tying for 4th in the conference.
I think this year has brought different challenges. We lost 7 guys that played last year and brought in 7 guys entirely new to the program who are playing significant roles. Whether you believe it or not, its difficult to get all these new guys to play well together in a short period of time (see UK/Duke struggles with high end talent). We won early on talent, not execution. Now that teams have seen 10-15 games and are playing in conference, execution is going to matter more. If we are going to turn things back around, we are going to have to execute better on both ends of the floor. Last night we saw too many guys trying to do it on their own.
When you look at where we were (bad or empty recruiting classes for several years, missing the tourney two straight years, locker room issues, etc), I think Holtmann has actually performed fairly well his first 5 seasons. The real question is whether he could/can elevate the program to something higher which required recruiting better. i think its clear he recruited well in this years frosh class and next years class is a great follow up. Whether you like it or not, he's gonna get a couple of more years to see what he can accomplish with this better mix of talent. If he's not shown progress over the next couple of seasons, then it will be time to move on.
I really like holtmann. He’s everything you want in a coach. Good recruiter. Loves his players. Runs a clean program. Is a stand up guy. Want him to lead osu to prominence again.
Unfortunately the business side just shows he is a marginal in game coach, motivator and player developer. I just don’t see him taking osu to any kind of championship.
He can’t win in January. Teams can’t get past the first weekend of the tournament. Four losses this year osu led or had a good chance to win the game and lost all four games. His teams just struggle to finish games.
Not surprising they can’t close. Look at how his so called in game “coaching”. The players tuned him out from the very beginning. I was tired of hearing yell “flow, flow, flow”! It’s time to end this experiment
I watched the Minnesota game again on DVD. We played well until the last 10 minutes. Forced shots and no movement. Holtmann's mike hookup showed all he said was "let's go". Minn. missed several free throws to help us out. The OSU end-of-game management is terrible.
As they shouldn’t. They were losing the entire game to the worst team in the Big 10. A team that has losses to DePaul and UNLV, and had to go to OT to beat Cal Baptist. Bucks should have beat Minnesota by 20.
“We really thought we would have Malaki Branham available for tonight’s game and that really hurt us”
4 of the next 5 games are on the road and the one home game is against an Iowa team hitting their stride. It would not be any surprise at all if this turns into a full blown meltdown. Hell it already is in my eyes.
Does anybody understand why Okpara played only a paltry 7 minutes? I though not. And where was Brown at the end of the game? I thought he had some good minutes earlier in the 2nd half.
Holtmann's offense is so boring. I know we have a high or the highest KenPom Offensive Efficiency rating, but it's boring. How many dunks are we getting in a game? How many fast break alley oops are we getting? We need a spark and some explosiveness, but instead just run the Holtmann offense that teams tend to figure out by January.
after watching the game of basketball for over 50 years I rely on my eyes instead of some efficiency rating or other analytic. The way this team is playing they are average at best and are very close to free fall downward.
Yeah, I agree. We used to have dudes just dunking and having fun. These are still young guys who want to have fun and showcase their talents. We still have DUDES who can play ball...Holtmann is just the restricting governor of mediocrity that won't let them.
Basically his two best players failed the team tonight, Sensabaugh with minimal defense and forced shots paired up with Sueing's poor shooting, his inability to stay on his feet on defense, with that said those two took half of the teams second half shots playing just a combined 25 minutes, eleven for Sensabaugh The team has just two turnovers the first half only to have seven in the second half with three of them on Zed.
With the top two having off nights no one else steps up their game. Zed played what I would describe as an average game for him with 10 points and 8 rebounds.
Many talk about offensive efficiency being so great on this team, yet they can't close out close games, shoot under 40% for the game. They had a chance to take control of the game when they finally took the leaf at 51-50 yet managed to give up 10 straight points. At one point they had outscored Minnesota 14-0 on second chance points, it was the only thing that kept OSU in the game. Minny did not make a field goal the last five minutes and OSU made a comeback to tie the game, Minnesota almost lost the game at the foul line only making 9-16 for the game and 6-11 in just the second half.
This team is poor on defense, Garcia lit them up for 28 points, they had no answer for him. We have seen a player on an opposing team play well above their average far too many times.
Watching the special broadcast, Holtmann's in game coaching, broadcast for all to see did not impress me in the least, I do not see an inspirational coach, a motivator, someone who has the respect of the players, a tactical coach. He is at a cross roads right now this team could basically quit on him at any time and he will have to live with the results.
I was going to post something similar. Why does Coach have to tell the players to push the ball? I was never very good, but even I wanted to push the ball up the court. A layup was the only shot I had a chance at making. It blew my mind when I heard Coach telling Sueing to play harder. He's in his 6th year of college basketball. He shouldn't need to be told to play hard.
The live mic actually increased my confidence in the coaching staff, but SIGNIFICANTLY decreased my confidence in the players. The loss had little to do with the bogus call. It had everything to do with the players.
The mike -up actually turned me off to both coaches and players. I actually heard very little coaching. Mostly it was cheerleading, pregnant pauses, calling out a schemes, who to keep off the boards, but not accountabilities of any player for anything happening on the floor. As for the players they just looked like a flat, disinterested, pick up squad. There was little excitement and players trying to motivate other players. It was as a textbook definition of a flat performance for both coaches and players.
I had a coach who said, "I don't want no pretty knees". Maybe bad English, but he made his point. I don't recall any Buckeyes diving on the floor for loose balls. I could be wrong.
In the immortal words of Chunk Barkley, "Turrible Call!" But Bucks shouldn't put themselves in that position. Got to be better. Especially late in games.
Only positive I can spin, and I'm really reaching, is maybe getting hosed on a final call like this will wake the team the F up. They are way better than how they're playing.
Or more likely, they are in full tailspin mode right now, 4 out of 5 on the road coming up. Could be looking at a 11-10 team in a few weeks.
If we had a coach similar to Bob Knight, that goofy ref that made the foul call with 1.7 seconds left may have had a chair thrown out on the floor.......Holtmann has NO fire in him............
Not sure if players read these threads but if you do, here's some food for thought for the team. Now that you are the laughing stock of the entire BIG 10 losing to a team with an overall losing record and a basement occupant with NO big 10 wins, there's only ONE way to go, and that is UP. This is a good team with lots of upside and potential. Most of you have been playing BB since grade school so you know how to play the game. Rutgers is chomping at the bit for some payback and you know this but what I seen last night simply told me you lost your composure for several minutes without scoring a point and the focus wasn't there. You missed 5-10 chippies/bunnies close range and that is lack of composure.
Rutgers wants to thump you bad for that game earlier in Cbus and it's on ALL of you to not let it happen. You played NO.1 Purdue to the wire and if not for bonehead coaching, should have won that game, so I know you can go toe to toe with any team in the conference. Everyone just needs to relax and let the game come to you. You're all too uptight now so relax.....and most importantly, have some FUN...........You CAN do this.......starting in the RAC on Sunday.
Blame the players? Yes there are times to do that. But the coaches recruited and developed (or lack thereof), so it ultimately still falls on the coaching staff. Holtmann just isn’t good at his job as a coach.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Didn't watch. I watch the basketball team in non-conference when they play a couple decent teams and if they show signs of same old Holtmann, I just skip the Big Ten season. I already know how it ends, so why watch. I don't know why anyone is surprised at this point, this is OSU under Holtmann and has been for years.
It was great coaching job by Holtmann, he brought the team back from the brink and had them in a position to win the game at the end, terrific job. Few other coaches in the country could have done better last night.
Get Holtmann the fuck outa there. The All Access proved he can't coach a lick. Can't even draw up a play in the huddle! An abject failure as a coach. Waaaay above his head at the B1G level. Gene . . . do one thing right before you leave. You've way underperformed in this hiring. Give the program to Diebler til seasons end. Then get a legit coach in there. It's really simple. Hoops is a simple game!!
it’s most likely going to take another 7 to 10 game losing streak before the administration cans his a$$. As a Buckeye fan I will always cheer on the team, but after the last couple of messes I find it unbearable to go to the Schott or tune into the game …oh how low this once proud and mighty program has sunk…a fucking embarrassment!!
Love Buckeye hoops but at some point I have to stop watching. It’s too aggravating and has been for the past several years. The loss to Nebraska at home last year also inexcusable.
During the MD game the TV announcers mentioned the Terps getting to all the loose balls and wanting it more. During the Minnesota game I listened to Keels and Ron Stokes. The latter said over and over that the gophers want it more, And it sure appears to me that way too. No fire.
After watching that split screen Minnesota game there was absolutely no affective coaching done by Holtman. He did so little it’s like he’s stealing his salary. The players have talent, but the coach is just not coaching.
Comments Show All Comments
Holtmann should be a dead man walking, if not for that horrendous contract extension.
And Sueing…just woof. Any team counting on him to be a top 2 scoring option is going to struggle more often than not.
More of the same from Holtmann, yet again. Time to bite the bullet and move on, Gene, cause this guy isn’t it. He’s a nice guy and recruits fine, just a lousy coach.
OSUCOM 2008 Graduate. Go Bucks!
The upcoming 7 game stretch will cook his goose.
There’s a legit chance that this team won’t even get to the tournament. In that case, Holtmann should be gone
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
What was the point spread at home going against the League's worst team? Doesn't matter.
JI row end 78
I thought maybe that Holtmann had turned the corner and that this team would be good. Pretty sure this coming Sunday will be another loss. Holtmann is a nice guy, but Ohio State can and should do better.
Never. Put. The. Game. In. The. Hands. Of. The. Officials.
"Character, like a photograph, develops in darkness." - Yousuf Karsh
Enough talk.
Never hire someone to win championships if they’ve never proven they can. How would they know how?
jNowie
Guessing Duke and North Carolina are glad you weren't making their coaching hires when Coach K and Dean Smith were nobodies
@Tiffin2b Are you saying Holtmann is a championship caliber coach? I love the Holtmann apologist logic.
BuckeyeYankee
No, he's saying that the two most consistent basketball teams of all time hired two guys who've never won a championship, as much as saying your argument is dumb...Holtmann has been a terrible in game coach this year without a doubt, losing to Minnesota at home is flat out inexcusable... But putting words in other peoples mouths to prove your point kind of defeats the purpose eh? or maybe its just willful ignorance...
Yeeeaaaahhhh, but it's not like those two programs were the most consistent programs of all time BEFORE those hires. Those hires worked out and they became dynasties. Whatever the case, this apples to oranges. We aren't finding a Dean Smith or Coach K today.
Coach K missed the tourney his first 3 seasons while compiling a record of 38-47. In todays environment, every fan would have been calling for his firing and pretty much every program today would have fired him.
I don't think Holt should have total job security. He performed very well with limited talent his first 2 seasons with holdover talent (figured out how to use the talents of Tate and KBD better than Matta). The 3rd season was cancelled before the post season. Season four saw us climb all the way up to number 4 in national rankings (was #4 at the end of February) then Young got hurt and we didn't close out the season well. Last year was a decent season especially given injury issues (no Sueing, no Towns, limited Young), tying for 4th in the conference.
I think this year has brought different challenges. We lost 7 guys that played last year and brought in 7 guys entirely new to the program who are playing significant roles. Whether you believe it or not, its difficult to get all these new guys to play well together in a short period of time (see UK/Duke struggles with high end talent). We won early on talent, not execution. Now that teams have seen 10-15 games and are playing in conference, execution is going to matter more. If we are going to turn things back around, we are going to have to execute better on both ends of the floor. Last night we saw too many guys trying to do it on their own.
When you look at where we were (bad or empty recruiting classes for several years, missing the tourney two straight years, locker room issues, etc), I think Holtmann has actually performed fairly well his first 5 seasons. The real question is whether he could/can elevate the program to something higher which required recruiting better. i think its clear he recruited well in this years frosh class and next years class is a great follow up. Whether you like it or not, he's gonna get a couple of more years to see what he can accomplish with this better mix of talent. If he's not shown progress over the next couple of seasons, then it will be time to move on.
And I love "geniuses" who can't comprehend what they are reading so they just make up their own narrative.
I really like holtmann. He’s everything you want in a coach. Good recruiter. Loves his players. Runs a clean program. Is a stand up guy. Want him to lead osu to prominence again.
Unfortunately the business side just shows he is a marginal in game coach, motivator and player developer. I just don’t see him taking osu to any kind of championship.
He can’t win in January. Teams can’t get past the first weekend of the tournament. Four losses this year osu led or had a good chance to win the game and lost all four games. His teams just struggle to finish games.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Not surprising they can’t close. Look at how his so called in game “coaching”. The players tuned him out from the very beginning. I was tired of hearing yell “flow, flow, flow”! It’s time to end this experiment
I watched the Minnesota game again on DVD. We played well until the last 10 minutes. Forced shots and no movement. Holtmann's mike hookup showed all he said was "let's go". Minn. missed several free throws to help us out. The OSU end-of-game management is terrible.
As they shouldn’t. They were losing the entire game to the worst team in the Big 10. A team that has losses to DePaul and UNLV, and had to go to OT to beat Cal Baptist. Bucks should have beat Minnesota by 20.
“We really thought we would have Malaki Branham available for tonight’s game and that really hurt us”
4 of the next 5 games are on the road and the one home game is against an Iowa team hitting their stride. It would not be any surprise at all if this turns into a full blown meltdown. Hell it already is in my eyes.
"We didn't play with enough force tonight"
@Shookster, there is no way in Hell, Ohio State beats Rutgers at the RAC on Sunday especially after that controversial call in their first game.
BuckeyeYankee
Does anybody understand why Okpara played only a paltry 7 minutes? I though not. And where was Brown at the end of the game? I thought he had some good minutes earlier in the 2nd half.
Zed Key gets screwed more than....never mind. /s
Holtmann's offense is so boring. I know we have a high or the highest KenPom Offensive Efficiency rating, but it's boring. How many dunks are we getting in a game? How many fast break alley oops are we getting? We need a spark and some explosiveness, but instead just run the Holtmann offense that teams tend to figure out by January.
after watching the game of basketball for over 50 years I rely on my eyes instead of some efficiency rating or other analytic. The way this team is playing they are average at best and are very close to free fall downward.
Yeah, I agree. We used to have dudes just dunking and having fun. These are still young guys who want to have fun and showcase their talents. We still have DUDES who can play ball...Holtmann is just the restricting governor of mediocrity that won't let them.
Basically his two best players failed the team tonight, Sensabaugh with minimal defense and forced shots paired up with Sueing's poor shooting, his inability to stay on his feet on defense, with that said those two took half of the teams second half shots playing just a combined 25 minutes, eleven for Sensabaugh The team has just two turnovers the first half only to have seven in the second half with three of them on Zed.
With the top two having off nights no one else steps up their game. Zed played what I would describe as an average game for him with 10 points and 8 rebounds.
Many talk about offensive efficiency being so great on this team, yet they can't close out close games, shoot under 40% for the game. They had a chance to take control of the game when they finally took the leaf at 51-50 yet managed to give up 10 straight points. At one point they had outscored Minnesota 14-0 on second chance points, it was the only thing that kept OSU in the game. Minny did not make a field goal the last five minutes and OSU made a comeback to tie the game, Minnesota almost lost the game at the foul line only making 9-16 for the game and 6-11 in just the second half.
This team is poor on defense, Garcia lit them up for 28 points, they had no answer for him. We have seen a player on an opposing team play well above their average far too many times.
Watching the special broadcast, Holtmann's in game coaching, broadcast for all to see did not impress me in the least, I do not see an inspirational coach, a motivator, someone who has the respect of the players, a tactical coach. He is at a cross roads right now this team could basically quit on him at any time and he will have to live with the results.
Holtmann is doing his best. This is all we can ask for...
Onward and upward! Go Buckeyes!
This is sarcasm I assume...
Chris, is that you?
You don’t simply lose to a shit Minnesota team on your home floor with a legitimate reason. There isn’t one to be found
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
It’s hard to blame the officials for a loss. You can, however thank them for a win against Rutgers. So there’s that.
Hmm
The only fire I can see associated with Holtmann. Heh.
Just play. Have fun. Enjoy the game. -- Michael Jordan
The other teams coach would take our players and beat Holtmann with them!
minnesota outplayed osu all night,it’s more on player effort than coaching imo.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
I was going to post something similar. Why does Coach have to tell the players to push the ball? I was never very good, but even I wanted to push the ball up the court. A layup was the only shot I had a chance at making. It blew my mind when I heard Coach telling Sueing to play harder. He's in his 6th year of college basketball. He shouldn't need to be told to play hard.
The live mic actually increased my confidence in the coaching staff, but SIGNIFICANTLY decreased my confidence in the players. The loss had little to do with the bogus call. It had everything to do with the players.
Go Buckeyes!!!
The mike -up actually turned me off to both coaches and players. I actually heard very little coaching. Mostly it was cheerleading, pregnant pauses, calling out a schemes, who to keep off the boards, but not accountabilities of any player for anything happening on the floor. As for the players they just looked like a flat, disinterested, pick up squad. There was little excitement and players trying to motivate other players. It was as a textbook definition of a flat performance for both coaches and players.
I can't disagree, but I can add this, no one ever had to tell me to play harder. Even in the old dads pick up games, I played hard. SMH
Go Buckeyes!!!
I had a coach who said, "I don't want no pretty knees". Maybe bad English, but he made his point. I don't recall any Buckeyes diving on the floor for loose balls. I could be wrong.
Nah, when Sueing clapped back at Holtmann in the huddle, I saw what the problem is.
In the immortal words of Chunk Barkley, "Turrible Call!" But Bucks shouldn't put themselves in that position. Got to be better. Especially late in games.
Muck Fichigan
Honest question, going into the season what were the expectations for this team this year? What were they 2 weeks ago? What are they now?
Muck Fichigan
Only positive I can spin, and I'm really reaching, is maybe getting hosed on a final call like this will wake the team the F up. They are way better than how they're playing.
Or more likely, they are in full tailspin mode right now, 4 out of 5 on the road coming up. Could be looking at a 11-10 team in a few weeks.
It's January. Nobody is surprised.
There are three different types of people in the world.....those who can count, and those who cannot.
Holtman can't get it done. Has accomplished nothing in the time he's been there. Time to look for a change. 6 yrs, long enough.
Holtmann is a decent coach for 30 minutes. Trouble is, college bb games last 40 minutes.
Sueing and Sensabaugh take alot of bad shots and play poor defense
HB
If we had a coach similar to Bob Knight, that goofy ref that made the foul call with 1.7 seconds left may have had a chair thrown out on the floor.......Holtmann has NO fire in him............
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Not sure if players read these threads but if you do, here's some food for thought for the team. Now that you are the laughing stock of the entire BIG 10 losing to a team with an overall losing record and a basement occupant with NO big 10 wins, there's only ONE way to go, and that is UP. This is a good team with lots of upside and potential. Most of you have been playing BB since grade school so you know how to play the game. Rutgers is chomping at the bit for some payback and you know this but what I seen last night simply told me you lost your composure for several minutes without scoring a point and the focus wasn't there. You missed 5-10 chippies/bunnies close range and that is lack of composure.
Rutgers wants to thump you bad for that game earlier in Cbus and it's on ALL of you to not let it happen. You played NO.1 Purdue to the wire and if not for bonehead coaching, should have won that game, so I know you can go toe to toe with any team in the conference. Everyone just needs to relax and let the game come to you. You're all too uptight now so relax.....and most importantly, have some FUN...........You CAN do this.......starting in the RAC on Sunday.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Sueing ALONE missed 5-10 bunnies.
Sueing has frequent stupid decisions.
Blame the players? Yes there are times to do that. But the coaches recruited and developed (or lack thereof), so it ultimately still falls on the coaching staff. Holtmann just isn’t good at his job as a coach.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Didn't watch. I watch the basketball team in non-conference when they play a couple decent teams and if they show signs of same old Holtmann, I just skip the Big Ten season. I already know how it ends, so why watch. I don't know why anyone is surprised at this point, this is OSU under Holtmann and has been for years.
Holtmann should have got a technical over that foul call
show some emotion man
I’m sick of this loser ass eunuch with zero guts or passion or creativity
This.
He just put his arms up. More of a confusing look than furious. At that point you know the game is most likely over, make it worth it.
There are three different types of people in the world.....those who can count, and those who cannot.
It was great coaching job by Holtmann, he brought the team back from the brink and had them in a position to win the game at the end, terrific job. Few other coaches in the country could have done better last night.
Sani
Lori Holtmann, welcome to 11W...sorry you have to read these comments regarding your hubby, but the only thing I can say is...the truth hurts.
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
Mrs. Holtmann, is that you?
Get Holtmann the fuck outa there. The All Access proved he can't coach a lick. Can't even draw up a play in the huddle! An abject failure as a coach. Waaaay above his head at the B1G level. Gene . . . do one thing right before you leave. You've way underperformed in this hiring. Give the program to Diebler til seasons end. Then get a legit coach in there. It's really simple. Hoops is a simple game!!
http://URLWoody 1
it’s most likely going to take another 7 to 10 game losing streak before the administration cans his a$$. As a Buckeye fan I will always cheer on the team, but after the last couple of messes I find it unbearable to go to the Schott or tune into the game …oh how low this once proud and mighty program has sunk…a fucking embarrassment!!
NWObuckeye
Where has the one poster BuckeyePastor been? He was always first to post and was diehard Matta guy? Hope everything is ok!
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
Maybe he moved to Indianapolis (Butler U.)?
Love Buckeye hoops but at some point I have to stop watching. It’s too aggravating and has been for the past several years. The loss to Nebraska at home last year also inexcusable.
During the MD game the TV announcers mentioned the Terps getting to all the loose balls and wanting it more. During the Minnesota game I listened to Keels and Ron Stokes. The latter said over and over that the gophers want it more, And it sure appears to me that way too. No fire.
Gregory
After watching that split screen Minnesota game there was absolutely no affective coaching done by Holtman. He did so little it’s like he’s stealing his salary. The players have talent, but the coach is just not coaching.
Othy
I really don’t know how Holtmann has made it as far as he has in CBB without suspecting that he’s a swindler or a con artist.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution