Stroud could show up when he wanted to, but where was the effort the other times?
Kind of tells you he was going thru the motions a lot of other times.
Honestly, I feel that what we saw for most of the season was more of a case of Day coaching Stroud to remain in the pocket rather out of the fear that he would get injured than Stroud not giving a full effort. Once we literally had nothing left to lose against Georgia, the proverbial reins were taken off. I wish we saw more of it, but, I can understand the decision.
Oh, and for those of you who are utterly convinced that either McCord or Brown will just step in and be an instant Heisman contender next year- THAT is why I am still highly skeptical. Ryan Day didn't have enough faith in McCord or Brown to risk an injury to Stroud, to the point where he handcuffed the offense even in The Game. The mix of sheer terror and exasperation written all over Day's face whenever he allowed McCord to do anything other than hand off last year tells me volumes as to what he actually thinks of the QBs he has returning.
I respectably disagree with you (and many, many more here) who contend that Day coached him to never run. I don't believe ANY HC would basically tell his QB not to take those 2/3 "free" yards and step out bounds. Stroud was a heck of a QB, but that was his mo until the finale when he totally showed-out. To think otherwise is just rewriting the history of those other 23 games. He was incredible passer and a very, very reluctant runner.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
I gotta push back on that a little bit.. all you have to do is go back to preseason last season to read all the concern about our QB room that had attempted something like 12 passes total. A sizeable portion were convinced that Ewers would waltz right in a take the job.
Well, that guy turned out to be pretty decent...
Now, maybe to your broader point: I do wish we'd get these second and third string guys some more work - if for no other reasons that it'd make us feel better as fans about the depth. Maybe with Knowles year two, we'll actually have some more garbage time opportunities?
I want to say I read somewhere that his High School coach came out and said he told him not to run when he was in HS, in fear of getting hurt and losing chances at college level? Could be making that up though.
Of course...Day wants a national title...you get CJ hurt your chances would have dropped significantly problem is that wasn't obvious to at least a third of the fanbase.
Mostly the ZERO WINS OVER MICHIGAN and his best accomplishment being a Rose Bowl win which is nothing more than a consolation prize now. Not even in the top 15 OSU QB's IMO. I don't care if you have a trillion yards when you can't beat Michigan
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
I assume you’re writing in hyperbole but what you typed goes to my point. Obviously impossible but say he did throw for a trillion yards but because of the worst defense in the history of the sport at all levels, we lost those games by an average of 1000000 - 1000002, would you still hold him that far down on the list? People keep talking in terms of the greats being able to will their teams to a win, but clearly there are certain obstacles that cannot be overcome by an individuals effort in a team sport.
I completely agree here. Look, we are all pissed that the team lost two in a row to ttun and we missed a great opportunity to beat GA this year. Throw in the loss to Oregon last year too if you want. What our fan base needs to understand is that NONE of those losses on CJ. His legacy will always be overshadowed by our horrendous D in 21 and still bad D in 22 with some terrible defensive calls at the absolute wrong time as icing on the cake. CJ is amazing. Whether or not he runs for a few yards or not doesn't change either ttun game. Sadly he won't end his career with accomplishing any of the team goals, but I don't see how anyone can hold that against him.
CJ scored exactly ZERO POINTS in the second half, unacceptable. That's absolutely on him. Even if the defense was better, scoring zero points doesn't get the job done.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
Just because it looks like he "is going through the motions" doesn't mean it's easy. It simply means that he makes it appear to be easy. Big difference.
Or.... That his coach told him not to risk running, so he didn't risk getting hurt. The drop-off is significant if he gets taken out. I don't think we really know the complete story.
There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you. - Woody Hayes
His performance against Georgia will be remembered forever. He was an absolute monster in that game.
Many people would look differently on his legacy if the defense over the last two seasons performed well in the biggest and most important games. What could have been….
I'm curious, what school holds a narrative that they are QB factories? Of the Top 40 QBs in NFL History, Purdue (Len Dawson, Drew Brees, and Bob Griese) and Stanford (John Elway, John Brodie, and Jim Plunkett) have three, Bama (Bart Starr and Ken Stabler), Oregon (Dan Fouts and Norm Van Brocklin) and Washington (Warren Moon and Mark Brunell) have two. No other school has produced more than one quarterback in the top 40 (this listing comes from Bleacher Report, so take the rankings for what they're worth). When the NFL put out their All-Time Team, there was no school with multiple quarterbacks. Additionally, This years starters (including backups who started due to injury, Cal and Oklahoma have 3, Clemson, Bama, and Louisville have 2, outside of those, no other school has more than 1.
For the "Historical Greats" I'd take OSU's output as a team over Purdue and Stanford any day of the week. Regarding current NFL players, again, I'm OK not putting out the "caliber QB's" if it means we continue to be more successful than the likes of Cal and Oklahoma.
This is what's wild about the "legacy" thing - if OSU wins the title (which it would have), then suddenly CJ is a Buckeye legend, but people now question him? Because the defense couldn't hold Georgia under 40 points?
I wish his two years had gone differently in some of the outcomes, but I sure as hell don''t put very much of that on CJ, and I am so glad he decided at the last minute to be a Buckeye.
He elevated the program as a destination for quarterbacks. And that is Stroud's Ohio State legacy
I hate to say it and I don't mean to be snarky or rub salt in the wound because I honestly disagree with it...it was not his fault. But, much of his legacy will still be 0/2 vs UM. We all know every OSU QB will be judged first and foremost on how they fared against UM. Stroud is heads and shoulders better than JT, but won't be remembered as fondly. It's just the reality of how OSU fans are.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Respectful counterpoint- OSU fans (most at least) realize that neither loss to UM was on CJ.
And losing twice to UM doesn't mean he didn't elevate or at least continue the trend of elite QB play at OSU. He was a Heisman finalist two years in a row for crying out loud.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
Respectful counterpoint- OSU fans (most at least) realize that neither loss to UM was on CJ.
I agree with you & hope we see this more from the fanbase because I personally don't think it's fair. I see the same thing about UM players with great careers who never beat OSU.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I agree. The first thing I think of when looking back on former Buckeyes and their time here is their record against TTUN. "Did they beat Michigan?"
That said, Stroud is one of the greats at QB at tOSU, and should be remembered as such. He deserved a win in The Game, just didn't work out for many reasons, a lot of which were out of his control.
You've been playing the foosball behind my back!?!
Honest question, as the demographics of the users here is fairly widespread. When you think of players like Orlando Pace, Antoine Winfield, Shawn Springs, Eddie George, do you first think, "they were 1-3 against Michigan" (I know there is a tie in there for a couple of these guys, but if it ain't a win, it's a loss in my book)? Or do you think of the Heisman Finalist, Thorpe Award, and Heisman Trophy Winner? I can see players like Mike Doss, Terrell Pryor, the Boren brothers, and Zeke being viewed based on their record against UM, because they all played in the Tressel and beyond era where OSU has dominated the rivalry, but I don't actually think CJ will be judged (in say 5-7 years) based on his two losses to scUM.
I remember CJ as the best QB of my 40 years as a rabid OSU fan. He wasn't the best runner (B Miller was) and he wasn't quit as ridiculous with the deep ball as Dwayne was but CJ was an all time Buckeye great and the stats back that up
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
I'll always be grateful for the way CJ represented The Ohio State University and how he carried himself humbly and gave thanks. Every time. All class. Even when being insulted on stage at the Heisman. He was like the polar opposite of Johnny Manzel or Baker Mayfield.
As you get older, three things happen: The first is your memory goes, and I can't remember the other two.
Couldn't agree more with CJ being an excellent representative of the team. I have been somewhat down on him in the past when it comes to what I interpreted as, for lack of a better term, "defeatism" emotions that CJ showed at times. I will humbly admit, I am by no means perfect, and my interpretation could be very far off. But I have mentioned in the past that CJ's maturity (from a mental approach to the game) and leadership need improvement before he heads to the NFL. He showed a ton of that maturity and leadership in the semi-final game, and I hope he continues to improve in those areas.
All that said, what I was hoping to see from CJ was his passing talent, combined with the drive to carry the team when needed (as he did in the semi-final), combined with the leadership of a JT Barrett. I suppose, in retrospect, that was probably asking too much, because that's about as close to the perfect quarterback as one could get, and expecting perfection is a tad unrealistic. CJ is an all time great, and as long as he is never being compared (in a "like" scenario) to the two bags of douche you mentioned, I'll always be happy.
And that impossible standard is what so many fans held Stroud to during those 23 games
I don't get it either. There was some really stupid shit said here last season, early. I agree, he looked a little lost but damn. In my eyes, he is a better version of Joe Germain, in an NFL ready body. At least I don't have to worry about my Browns drafting him. They are too stupid.
CJ was a great qb, and I hope he tears it up in the NFL. But, as stated above, most of his legacy will be 0-2 vs TTUN. That said, neither of those losses were his fault. It sucks, but it is what it is.
To be sure, that is a part of his legacy, but only part. The other part includes a 23-4 record as a starter, over 8,000 passing yards, and 85 touchdowns. Two games do not a legacy make.
If we want or choose to remember CJ for his record against TTUN, do we do the same for many of the greats from the 90s who had a dog shit record against Michigan? How do we remember Orlando Pace, Big Kat, Eddie George, Matt Finkes, Mike Vrabel, Luke Fickell, and the list goes on. The only difference is that these otherwise great Buckeye players were (and still are) able to hide behind this fanbase and history's sole blame of John Cooper for their embarrassing record against Michigan.
As for Stroud, IMHO, he is the greatest pure passer of a football that I have ever seen in college football. Aside from that, do or did I have my concerns about him? Yes. But his presence on the field will be sorely missed next year. You just don't plug and play while replacing a player like him. As for his "legacy", it has already been written that the Michigan losses were not on him. You can argue whether he should or could have willed his team to win when the chips were down. But if you chastise him for that, then make sure you do the same for the guys I have mentioned in this post who share little to none of the blame for their record against TTUN with the "luxury" of that historical animosity leveled exclusively at their coach.
Legacies are subjective things. What do you choose to remember? Craig Krenzel, pedestrian quarterback who barely escaped with wins against substandard competition, or Craig Krenzel, National Champion? Troy Smith, Wolverine killer, or post-Heisman, out-of-shape, and unprepared Troy Smith against the Gators? Fair or unfair, team performance plays into QB legacy. So it will be with CJ (though I don't disagree with your assessment of his passing).
It's a fair point regarding Buckeyes during the Cooper years, though I'll note that none of those listed were QBs. Let's just hope that CJ's legacy vs. UM doesn't appreciate in comparison with Day's as the years roll on.
Why was QB position such a major issue under Cooper? Joe Germain seems to be the “best” of that bunch out of all of those years. He had studs in many other positions. Of course we know Cooper’s legacy and it isn’t very favorable
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Of course we know Cooper’s legacy and it isn’t very favorable
Then why is the list of guys I posted - who played for Coop almost pristine by comparison? They shared and owned much of this legacy for their record vs. Michigan. Yes, as the coach the "buck stopped with him" (no pun intended) but I'll be damned if I will let some of the most heralded and beloved Buckeyes off the hook and lay Coop's record against TTUN completely at his feet.
I’m not arguing your point. Many other the players that Cooper had probably wished they would have had more success against TTUN and in bowl games as well. I didn’t write their legacies but the establishment had written it long ago for guys like Shawn Springs, Andy Katzenmoyer, Herbie, Carlos Snow, Na’il Diggs, Reggie Germany, Stanley Jackson, Joey Galloway etc.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Recency bias views CJ with some negativity (for all the reasons listed), where as that same recency bias give Fickell and Vrabel (successful coaches) a positive glow. Nostalgia is generally positive unless it's so egregious that is infamous (2-10-1). hence Orlando, Eddie and Andy get favorable nods and they were All Time Buckeye Greats with major awards and at least 1 UM victory. I think eventually it will be recognized CJ is amongst the best QBs in OSU history, just right now people tend to look at the shortcomings and what could have been. Fair or not it is what it is.
Stroud will carry the 0-2 legacy more than any guy you mentioned because he is the QB. Had he been 2-0, he would get all of the credit. QBs get too much credit AND blame for team performance, especially since football is the ultimate team sport.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
Who gives a shit about 8 quadrillion passing yards against the trash we play 3/4 of the year? Woohoo 400 yard passing game against the powerhouses of Toledo and Arkansas State! He was responsible for exactly ZERO POINTS in the second half against Michigan this year. Defense could have been better and we still would have lost. Go make your "muh statistics" argument to your Michigan friends and watch them laugh in your stupid face.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
I think a lot of you have forgotten what the rivalry is after winning for so many years. Your Legacy is what you do against Michigan and CJ has a 100% failure rate.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
"You caint hurt me if you caint touch me" was the reasoning behind Stroud's 'historic' TD run vs Michigan State. Once he realized the Buckeye O-line can protect him, he scrapped his legs until the Peach Bowl.
The 2019 (the year after Haskins left) defense was truly special, but a big part of it was the player talent. Okudah, Fuller, Arnette, Young, Werner, Harrison, Wade. I'm optimistic about the defense next season but I don't expect it to be quite as dominant. Recruiting misses in the secondary have become more obvious over time. Hopefully Carter can help.
FWIW, I'd take the 2022 defense over the 2018 version any day. 2018 D couldn't stop a freaking nosebleed.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
Everyone wanted him to run more but without the stats I would guess he fared better against pressure/blitz (mostly with escaping and completing passes with eyes downfield) than even Fields who took a lot of sacks trusting his legs in college.
Sure, but that's apples and oranges. In truth, CJ did everything he could to go undefeated. He never played a subpar game and lost. The closest he came was Oregon his first year. Defense lost us all those games, Team wins/losses and individual stats never belong in the same conversation. That said, always better to win games than awards for an individual and the team, but that was exactly what CJ always said when asked as well.
If we're even suggesting that 35 of 54 passes for 484 yards, three touchdowns and an interception, is a "subpar" game for a Buckeye starting QB....sheesh!
Day notoriously has a short leash for backup quarterbacks in relief appearances. Sure would like to see this change. Give the back-up several meaningful snaps in most games with the first string. Build up their confidence and experience. If CJ would have taken a hit during the Peach Bowl and been in concussion protocol, we would have been up a creek without a paddle.
Really wanted that UGA win for him as it would have helped his legacy greatly. Every call went against OSU and he still nearly pulled it off. No doubt in my mind with Marv in the game they win.
I’m almost 70—so I remember a time when stars in team sports were not ultimately judged by the number of championship teams they were a part of. Perhaps the best example of this: Jerry West’s nickname was “Mr. Clutch” notwithstanding the fact that his Laker teams lost a bunch of times in the NBA Finals to the Celtics and then lost in the Finals to the Knicks before LA won its one and only title with West as a player.
CJ was more impressive than Rex, Craig, and Cardale—the 3 national championship QBs in my lifetime.
I will forever come to CJ’s defense similar to the way (as a diehard Knicks fan) I have defended Patrick Ewing. Trust me, if Patrick had Clyde and The Pearl (or Dick Barnett) as his starting guards and Dave DeB in front court, he would not have gone ringless in his NBA career.
I hope CJ has the opportunity to wear some championship NFL jewelry.
PS—CJ had a terrific TD scramble run last year against TTUN that was called back.
Has there been an official announcement that he is, in fact, entering the draft? Most of us have considered it a foregone conclusion, but is another shot at the Heisman and championships enough of a draw to stay? Though it isn't 1st round, NFL money, he is taking in some cash. Would Coach Day even "let" him stay for risk of losing another future signee?
Still too soon...... :) I can't look at the long run clip and think, what if he had run for two years, would his instincts be better? would he have seen the bounce was to the right where the blocking was setup, and not the left..
Either way, he moved up the board of QBs that get talked about imo... for all the good things CJ did, if that Georgia game ends with us losing by 14-21 points, he would have been in that Todd Boeckman range... For me, and how hard he fought, he's more in the Pryor range...
I know we keep talking about replacing him..... but he still has 5 days to declare, and this isn't the past two decades.. NIL money is real ( or at least should be).. stranger things...
To discuss your first point, had he run more in his two years, maybe he tears an acl, or incurs another injury from a run. Remember his shoulder (?) injury early on in his first year? I’m just fine with C.J. Stroud’s performance as a Buckeye, and will not critique his efforts in any way.
How Stroud will be remembered. Gave it 110% against the reigning National Champs in a game for the ages and showed he has dual threat capabilities, but made some untimely passes against TTUN in two tries. Also was a huge catalyst in a Rose Bowl victory with insane statistics. Best of luck to Stroud in the NFL.
I might get DVed but that’s fine. I do wish we could have seen him run a bit more situational when the offense stalled a few times. Don’t know if that is more an issue with Day or Stroud, but I’d take stroud on my team over Bryce Young, who is way to small to play the position.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Stroud was great for the Buckeyes, maybe the best, for all of the reasons Ramzy laid out. And yes, his arm was a much greater assett than his legs as far as his own personal accomplishments and the accomplishments of the team. But in a more scientific look than Ramzy's article, I'd be curious to know how many times he could have run for 5-7 yards without a whiff of being hit by a defender, as opposed to forcing an incompletion or simply throwing it away. And then how many times we had to punt a couple of plays later because of 2nd/3rd and long situations. Again, CJ was GREAT for the Buckeyes and will always have my respect, but his (or his coach's) refusal to pick up the easy yards very well could have cost CJ a Heisman, and the Buckeyes a National Championship.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
always have my respect, but his (or his coach's) refusal to pick up the easy yards very well could have cost CJ a Heisman, and the Buckeyes a National Championship.
It could have cost him a Heisman, but I think saying his reluctance to run costs OSU a NC is a bit of a stretch. Take a look at the first loss under Stroud against the Ducks. That loss fell squarely on the shoulders of Kerry Coombs. And the last loss in Ann Arbor 2021 was not likely to be any different because of the porous defense that OSU played.
FF to 2022 and I do think he could have picked up more yards on the ground Vs Michigan. Could they have won that way? Absolutely, because it would have changed how Michigan played the rest of the game. But even with an undefeated record going into the playoff, the Bucks are likely 2nd seed. And say they roll TCU mad end up playing most likely Georgia again in the championship, we don’t know if the Bucks lose another close one or not. Too many variables involved
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
In regards to the NC, that's why I said "very well could have". It's not a certainty. I don't remember too many specifics from the Oregon game. A quick glance at the game stats shows a ton of yards, but only 28 points with a couple of stalled drives. I do specifically remember feeling CJ could have extended drives a couple of times with a short run. But yes, the defense was atrocious that day.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I agree 100%, 0717. +1. Stroud was a great passer, that's unquestioned. If he had blended in even a little bit of being a running threat those accomplishments would have very possibly been reached. If so, his "legacy" would probably be him being the greatest Buckeye QB of all time up to this point. Lost opportunity,
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
What he showed is there’s more to being a great QB than being a great passer. He’s legitimately the best throwing QB by the numbers that we’ve had. I’m curious about how Haskins would have done with this WR room.
But there were plays missed. Check downs or throw aways that ended as sacks. Incompletions when runs could have moved the chains. And people complained about it for 2 years.
Sometimes being great at one thing isn’t as good as being good at a lot of things.
CJ Stroud lost 4 games in his Buckeye career, and apparently his legacy is defined by those four losses. Well - if that's the case - let's look at those 4 games:
Better question....How many points did our defense give up in the 4th quarter of those games. I love how we compare apples to oranges. CJ won more games in spite of our defense. I can't think of one game where I thought " I wish our qb was better". Anyway I hope our next qb is great too. I have a feeling we're going to miss CJ next year.
So he wasn't perfect in all scenarios. I know we all have very high expectations, but perfection seems to be the only acceptable performance grade for some folks. Kinda sad IMHO.
If he runs his legacy would have been like the Georgia game which he was fantastic, Is that CJ or Ryan Day? You can't win a college football game against about a good football team without a running QB, See JJ, Max D and Stenson B They all were a threat to run the ball, but CJ was instructed to not run or refused.
CJ's legacy won't be written for 5 years. If he goes to the NFL and becomes the next Brady or Mahomes, all Buckeye fan bitching about his lack of running while here will disappear and he will officially be the "greatest Buckeye QB ever". Right now that honor goes to Joe Burrow, the Buckeye QB that almost was.
I wish that the Browns would trade up for Stroud. They're going to need a QB either very soon once the Watson misadventure comes to it's obvious, pathetic, totally predictable finally: fail or jail, or as the QB of the future after a couple seasons behind Watson. I DO believe that Stroud has the talent and the potential to be a great NFL QB, and maybe that means that he doesn't get thrown to the wolves like Fields. I'd straight up trade Watson to another team to get Stroud. Maybe we can trade Watson BACK to the Texans?
His career in big games reminds me of old Cavs headlines from when LeBron was still young. It would say something like "Lebron scores 62; Cavs lose." Now, unlike Lebron, CJ had plenty of offensive help - but the other side of the ball has been bad for CJ. I'm a bit nervous that we'll get the defense trending in the right direction just as we run out of "Heisman Finalist" QB luck and we'll continue our trend of Top 5, but not quite Top 1. It's definitely an envious position from the perspective of teams that don't finish Top 5, but I'm getting greedy.
Lots of great games and effort from #7. Wish we had a few more Wins but we never had a horrible game where the team just crapped. Second half against ttun was bad but they are a good team. I still rate the losses to Sparty and Clemson and Iowa and Purdue from 2015 to 2018 as worse. I despise ttun but they have the most wins ever and the biggest stadium- they should be battling us every year. I would still take 17-4 this century over ttun rather than the flip of that.
In regards to the legacy of Stroud- the quarterback room for the Buckeyes is the place to be. We will get another quarterback ready for 2023.
Stroud laying it all on the line changed nearly the entire perception of the fanbase. Factually he’s still 0-2 against Michigan and he stated those games don’t define him. Unfortunately in the scope of Ohio State they do. It wasn’t just the play, it was the pressers. He tried his ass off to flip that narrative and I think it worked, but me personally, I’ll remember him as he put it all on the line, but he didn’t finish the deal. Paired with the losses to Michigan… oof.
Wish he could’ve finished the deal, Ohio sports are cursed.
They need a 2 to tie, a 3 to win it; Sylvester for threeeee... OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH WITH FIVE POINT ONE TO GO!!!
It's unfortunate that most of us will immediately think about his 0-2 record vs scUM whenever we see him down the road. It's not solely on his shoulders, he doesn't play defense too. And he really was a phenomenal qb. I'll be excited to see what he does in the league.
I remember (it wasn’t that long ago) how sick I was after the 2019 loss to Clemson. It was robbery by instant replay but the opportunity was still there at the end to get the W and it didn’t happen.
Deja Vu.
The difference now is that Justin came back and got redemption vs Clemson.
Yeah it still sucks but OSU will fight on. Stroud will move in to the pros as the natural progression of things. Sort of wish we had Wypler coming back but I get it from his perspective. New faces for the future but the expectations may never be too far behind.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
As an outside observer who takes a keen interest in the Ohio State Buckeyes, I think that there is a lot to unpack and digest amongst yourselves about the CJ Stroud era. Respect, nuff said.
From my perspective, wanting CJ to scramble or run more was more the stress of knowing when we did play a great team he would need to use his legs, more than it was thinking he was a wimp. He played well in both TTUN losses, and obviously saved his best game for his final game as a Buckeye. We all knew that he had to be at his absolute best for us to have a shot at UGA, and he did just that AND gave us a shot. That last scramble may have been my favorite moment from his time, which is ironic. Had Ruggles made the FG, or Day called one of those "safe 30 (or just 10) yard handoffs" to get closer that could have changed CJ's legacy forever. We see clips of Ginn, Troy Smith, Devin Smith, Cardale, Zeke, Curtis Samuel, etc,,because when they made those plays on the biggest stages their teams usually won, otherwise the herculean effort was for not. Unfortunately CJ's effort on Dec 31st, although herculean, was for not because of other factors.
Man watching that scramble hurts....14 saved the day. He gets Stroud by the shoelaces and if he doesn't he's up field another 4-5 yards at minimum if not more. 29 looks like he has an angle on him but that's only after he's down. I don't think CJ breaks it all the way but he certainly gets it way closer to Ruggles range....
Game of inches.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
I don’t blame CJ for not running more. I blame Ryan Day for not coaching him to run when there’s open field in front of him. This should be a coaching point. Ryan Day is supposedly the QB guru. Coach them to run Ryan.
Also, the running QB has been a missing element of our offense. We need it back. I’m not saying we need to go full on JT Barret. But we need to be able to keep a defense honest.
I just got around to rewatching the Peach Bowl. It was a one point loss that went down to the final play so there were probably a dozen plays, that had they gone another way, would have changed the outcome. While Knowles has been taking a lot of grief on his playcalling, what I remember from watching it live was thinking that UGA's offense was very good and they could make plays against any coverage. That was reinforced by the way they carved up TCU. Watching the main network feed is tough to get the all-22 look, but they scored against us in soft zone as well as Cover-1 or 0.
My take is that this game was lost due to Day's play calling and CJ's decision making on the last two drives (without Harrison - both Emeka and Julian made plays). On the second to last drive, we were moving and had success running at the edges. UGA blitzed the house on 2nd & 5 with 4:04 left. CJ had Emeka open in the right flat, was turned that way, yet turned around into the blitz and lost twelve yards. Emeka might not have gotten the first down but there was only one defender over there. A first down lets them run out a lot of clock.
On the last drive, 1st and 10, the play call could have been a read option - had CJ kept the ball and ran to the right edge, no one was there and could have picked up at least 5-10 yards. It would have been against tendency - or at least call a running play to the edge which had been working for positive yards. On 2nd & 10, the slant pass was well covered, it hit X's hands, but it was high and not into the body or low. And on 3rd & 10, Emeka was wide open in the left flat, CJ looked right at him but didn't throw it. Either of those completions make that FGA easier. You could tell looking at Bennett that he thought it was over after CJ scrambled to the 30.
Like I said, any number of plays could have made a difference, so it's a bit unfair to lay it on Day and CJ after strong performances up to getting to the 30 twice in 4Q. But it was right there if we could have taken it.
My memory of Stroud will be a tale of two QBs, with the question of how much of leash he had to wear.
I used to think that CJ was timid, and that he had to "read the script" during every down. The Peach Bowl showed me a different thing altogether, so I wonder what could have happened if we had watched him under three different variables:
-A willing Ryan Day that would have let the man play loose without a script.
-A defensive secondary that would keep the opposing score low enough to not sweat.
-Healthy JSN in the mix, along with 90% healthy running back room.
I can't be down on Stroud now, because he showed me what he looks like, with the game on the line, against the now 2-time National Champs. Did I wish he'd show that at The Game? Sure, but that's water under the bridge now. What's clear to me, is that whomever takes over as QB1 will need to show the same guts that CJ Stroud did against Georgia.
I don't need the best arm. I don't need the best runner. But I do want and need someone who can do both well enough to play with some heroics.
Comments Show All Comments
Stroud could show up when he wanted to, but where was the effort the other times?
Kind of tells you he was going thru the motions a lot of other times.
Honestly, I feel that what we saw for most of the season was more of a case of Day coaching Stroud to remain in the pocket rather out of the fear that he would get injured than Stroud not giving a full effort. Once we literally had nothing left to lose against Georgia, the proverbial reins were taken off. I wish we saw more of it, but, I can understand the decision.
Oh, and for those of you who are utterly convinced that either McCord or Brown will just step in and be an instant Heisman contender next year- THAT is why I am still highly skeptical. Ryan Day didn't have enough faith in McCord or Brown to risk an injury to Stroud, to the point where he handcuffed the offense even in The Game. The mix of sheer terror and exasperation written all over Day's face whenever he allowed McCord to do anything other than hand off last year tells me volumes as to what he actually thinks of the QBs he has returning.
3 QB's- Haskins, Fields and Stroud. All very different. All played extremely well under Day's guidance/development.
We haven't seen much of Stroud or Brown but we didn't see much of CJ either and he obviously turned out pretty good. That's why people are optimistic.
To be clear, McCord or Brown may not be Heisman finalists in their first year starting, but if the defense holds up, they shouldn't have to be.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
Throw '17 JT in there too.
Yes, but the 2014 version of JT, before the Michigan injury, was his best version.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
JT's stats from 2014 and 2017 are awfully similar.
JT could overthrow the Taliban, but when he took off - it was an open field thing of beauty.
Lord Hammercy
I respectably disagree with you (and many, many more here) who contend that Day coached him to never run. I don't believe ANY HC would basically tell his QB not to take those 2/3 "free" yards and step out bounds. Stroud was a heck of a QB, but that was his mo until the finale when he totally showed-out. To think otherwise is just rewriting the history of those other 23 games. He was incredible passer and a very, very reluctant runner.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
I gotta push back on that a little bit.. all you have to do is go back to preseason last season to read all the concern about our QB room that had attempted something like 12 passes total. A sizeable portion were convinced that Ewers would waltz right in a take the job.
Well, that guy turned out to be pretty decent...
Now, maybe to your broader point: I do wish we'd get these second and third string guys some more work - if for no other reasons that it'd make us feel better as fans about the depth. Maybe with Knowles year two, we'll actually have some more garbage time opportunities?
I want to say I read somewhere that his High School coach came out and said he told him not to run when he was in HS, in fear of getting hurt and losing chances at college level? Could be making that up though.
Of course...Day wants a national title...you get CJ hurt your chances would have dropped significantly problem is that wasn't obvious to at least a third of the fanbase.
Bbc11
What part of
don’t you understand?
Woodyson,
Mostly the ZERO WINS OVER MICHIGAN and his best accomplishment being a Rose Bowl win which is nothing more than a consolation prize now. Not even in the top 15 OSU QB's IMO. I don't care if you have a trillion yards when you can't beat Michigan
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
I assume you’re writing in hyperbole but what you typed goes to my point. Obviously impossible but say he did throw for a trillion yards but because of the worst defense in the history of the sport at all levels, we lost those games by an average of 1000000 - 1000002, would you still hold him that far down on the list? People keep talking in terms of the greats being able to will their teams to a win, but clearly there are certain obstacles that cannot be overcome by an individuals effort in a team sport.
I completely agree here. Look, we are all pissed that the team lost two in a row to ttun and we missed a great opportunity to beat GA this year. Throw in the loss to Oregon last year too if you want. What our fan base needs to understand is that NONE of those losses on CJ. His legacy will always be overshadowed by our horrendous D in 21 and still bad D in 22 with some terrible defensive calls at the absolute wrong time as icing on the cake. CJ is amazing. Whether or not he runs for a few yards or not doesn't change either ttun game. Sadly he won't end his career with accomplishing any of the team goals, but I don't see how anyone can hold that against him.
KY Buckeye
CJ scored exactly ZERO POINTS in the second half, unacceptable. That's absolutely on him. Even if the defense was better, scoring zero points doesn't get the job done.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
It's a team sport
Don't think he will lose sleep over it...or money.
Bbc11
Those zero wins Vs Ttun are team losses not CJ’s
The mark of excellence, the test of greatness, is consistency
Absolutely, going through the motions of throwing touchdowns and winning games.
Beat Michigan
Except the two most important ones
He doesn't play defense
3 points in the second half is pathetic, that's not a defense problem.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
Running Dallan Hayden (4.8 ypc vs Georgia) only 9 times reminds me of another loss when we ran Zeke 12 times.
Neither game was a Defense problem - both games within a FG.
Lord Hammercy
Yeah maybe he should have been out there playing safety AND vetoing Knowles every time he called for cover 0.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
the "curse" of the smooth athlete
Just because it looks like he "is going through the motions" doesn't mean it's easy. It simply means that he makes it appear to be easy. Big difference.
vacuuming sucks
Or.... That his coach told him not to risk running, so he didn't risk getting hurt. The drop-off is significant if he gets taken out. I don't think we really know the complete story.
There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you. - Woody Hayes
You never played sports. You don't always have it. I wouldn't expect you to understand.
His performance against Georgia will be remembered forever. He was an absolute monster in that game.
Many people would look differently on his legacy if the defense over the last two seasons performed well in the biggest and most important games. What could have been….
"We'd wipe the floor with them" - Evan Spencer
Right. Stroud never had the opportunity to play with an elite defense. Kinda sucks.
But obviously he developed well, won a lot of games, made a lot of amazing plays etc... I wish him the best at the next level.
Can Stroud and Fields change the narrative on OSU putting high caliber QB's in the league? Time will tell.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
I'm curious, what school holds a narrative that they are QB factories? Of the Top 40 QBs in NFL History, Purdue (Len Dawson, Drew Brees, and Bob Griese) and Stanford (John Elway, John Brodie, and Jim Plunkett) have three, Bama (Bart Starr and Ken Stabler), Oregon (Dan Fouts and Norm Van Brocklin) and Washington (Warren Moon and Mark Brunell) have two. No other school has produced more than one quarterback in the top 40 (this listing comes from Bleacher Report, so take the rankings for what they're worth). When the NFL put out their All-Time Team, there was no school with multiple quarterbacks. Additionally, This years starters (including backups who started due to injury, Cal and Oklahoma have 3, Clemson, Bama, and Louisville have 2, outside of those, no other school has more than 1.
For the "Historical Greats" I'd take OSU's output as a team over Purdue and Stanford any day of the week. Regarding current NFL players, again, I'm OK not putting out the "caliber QB's" if it means we continue to be more successful than the likes of Cal and Oklahoma.
Fu(k _ichigan
QBU doesn't exist, it's just a stick people collectively decide to hit Ohio State (and only Ohio State) over the head with.
Both TTUN loses, and the Georgia loss were elite defenses.
Lord Hammercy
This is what's wild about the "legacy" thing - if OSU wins the title (which it would have), then suddenly CJ is a Buckeye legend, but people now question him? Because the defense couldn't hold Georgia under 40 points?
I wish his two years had gone differently in some of the outcomes, but I sure as hell don''t put very much of that on CJ, and I am so glad he decided at the last minute to be a Buckeye.
I hate to say it and I don't mean to be snarky or rub salt in the wound because I honestly disagree with it...it was not his fault. But, much of his legacy will still be 0/2 vs UM. We all know every OSU QB will be judged first and foremost on how they fared against UM. Stroud is heads and shoulders better than JT, but won't be remembered as fondly. It's just the reality of how OSU fans are.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Respectful counterpoint- OSU fans (most at least) realize that neither loss to UM was on CJ.
And losing twice to UM doesn't mean he didn't elevate or at least continue the trend of elite QB play at OSU. He was a Heisman finalist two years in a row for crying out loud.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
I agree with you & hope we see this more from the fanbase because I personally don't think it's fair. I see the same thing about UM players with great careers who never beat OSU.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
yes, however that is the fanbase having fun with it as a delayed (and sustained) reaction to "The Cooper Era."
“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”
I agree. The first thing I think of when looking back on former Buckeyes and their time here is their record against TTUN. "Did they beat Michigan?"
That said, Stroud is one of the greats at QB at tOSU, and should be remembered as such. He deserved a win in The Game, just didn't work out for many reasons, a lot of which were out of his control.
You've been playing the foosball behind my back!?!
Honest question, as the demographics of the users here is fairly widespread. When you think of players like Orlando Pace, Antoine Winfield, Shawn Springs, Eddie George, do you first think, "they were 1-3 against Michigan" (I know there is a tie in there for a couple of these guys, but if it ain't a win, it's a loss in my book)? Or do you think of the Heisman Finalist, Thorpe Award, and Heisman Trophy Winner? I can see players like Mike Doss, Terrell Pryor, the Boren brothers, and Zeke being viewed based on their record against UM, because they all played in the Tressel and beyond era where OSU has dominated the rivalry, but I don't actually think CJ will be judged (in say 5-7 years) based on his two losses to scUM.
Fu(k _ichigan
Is how he performed. 0/2 is how the team performed. Yes he is part of the team but one person can only do so much.
7.7 yards per attempt. A solid number, but for context, OSU averaged 11.6 against U-M in 2019 and 12.8 in 2018.
I remember CJ as the best QB of my 40 years as a rabid OSU fan. He wasn't the best runner (B Miller was) and he wasn't quit as ridiculous with the deep ball as Dwayne was but CJ was an all time Buckeye great and the stats back that up
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
I'll always be grateful for the way CJ represented The Ohio State University and how he carried himself humbly and gave thanks. Every time. All class. Even when being insulted on stage at the Heisman. He was like the polar opposite of Johnny Manzel or Baker Mayfield.
As you get older, three things happen: The first is your memory goes, and I can't remember the other two.
Couldn't agree more with CJ being an excellent representative of the team. I have been somewhat down on him in the past when it comes to what I interpreted as, for lack of a better term, "defeatism" emotions that CJ showed at times. I will humbly admit, I am by no means perfect, and my interpretation could be very far off. But I have mentioned in the past that CJ's maturity (from a mental approach to the game) and leadership need improvement before he heads to the NFL. He showed a ton of that maturity and leadership in the semi-final game, and I hope he continues to improve in those areas.
All that said, what I was hoping to see from CJ was his passing talent, combined with the drive to carry the team when needed (as he did in the semi-final), combined with the leadership of a JT Barrett. I suppose, in retrospect, that was probably asking too much, because that's about as close to the perfect quarterback as one could get, and expecting perfection is a tad unrealistic. CJ is an all time great, and as long as he is never being compared (in a "like" scenario) to the two bags of douche you mentioned, I'll always be happy.
Fu(k _ichigan
I don't get it either. There was some really stupid shit said here last season, early. I agree, he looked a little lost but damn. In my eyes, he is a better version of Joe Germain, in an NFL ready body. At least I don't have to worry about my Browns drafting him. They are too stupid.
I'll have to go without bourbon today.
#walkaway
This dips into why "rings" is not a way to rank a player, but the way to rank a team.
#walkaway
CJ was a great qb, and I hope he tears it up in the NFL. But, as stated above, most of his legacy will be 0-2 vs TTUN. That said, neither of those losses were his fault. It sucks, but it is what it is.
For those that insist on holding his legacy in a negative light, this is the only fair way to do so.
To be sure, that is a part of his legacy, but only part. The other part includes a 23-4 record as a starter, over 8,000 passing yards, and 85 touchdowns. Two games do not a legacy make.
Beat Michigan
If we want or choose to remember CJ for his record against TTUN, do we do the same for many of the greats from the 90s who had a dog shit record against Michigan? How do we remember Orlando Pace, Big Kat, Eddie George, Matt Finkes, Mike Vrabel, Luke Fickell, and the list goes on. The only difference is that these otherwise great Buckeye players were (and still are) able to hide behind this fanbase and history's sole blame of John Cooper for their embarrassing record against Michigan.
As for Stroud, IMHO, he is the greatest pure passer of a football that I have ever seen in college football. Aside from that, do or did I have my concerns about him? Yes. But his presence on the field will be sorely missed next year. You just don't plug and play while replacing a player like him. As for his "legacy", it has already been written that the Michigan losses were not on him. You can argue whether he should or could have willed his team to win when the chips were down. But if you chastise him for that, then make sure you do the same for the guys I have mentioned in this post who share little to none of the blame for their record against TTUN with the "luxury" of that historical animosity leveled exclusively at their coach.
Legacies are subjective things. What do you choose to remember? Craig Krenzel, pedestrian quarterback who barely escaped with wins against substandard competition, or Craig Krenzel, National Champion? Troy Smith, Wolverine killer, or post-Heisman, out-of-shape, and unprepared Troy Smith against the Gators? Fair or unfair, team performance plays into QB legacy. So it will be with CJ (though I don't disagree with your assessment of his passing).
It's a fair point regarding Buckeyes during the Cooper years, though I'll note that none of those listed were QBs. Let's just hope that CJ's legacy vs. UM doesn't appreciate in comparison with Day's as the years roll on.
Beat Michigan
Why was QB position such a major issue under Cooper? Joe Germain seems to be the “best” of that bunch out of all of those years. He had studs in many other positions. Of course we know Cooper’s legacy and it isn’t very favorable
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Then why is the list of guys I posted - who played for Coop almost pristine by comparison? They shared and owned much of this legacy for their record vs. Michigan. Yes, as the coach the "buck stopped with him" (no pun intended) but I'll be damned if I will let some of the most heralded and beloved Buckeyes off the hook and lay Coop's record against TTUN completely at his feet.
I’m not arguing your point. Many other the players that Cooper had probably wished they would have had more success against TTUN and in bowl games as well. I didn’t write their legacies but the establishment had written it long ago for guys like Shawn Springs, Andy Katzenmoyer, Herbie, Carlos Snow, Na’il Diggs, Reggie Germany, Stanley Jackson, Joey Galloway etc.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Understood - fair points, bucktown.
Recency bias views CJ with some negativity (for all the reasons listed), where as that same recency bias give Fickell and Vrabel (successful coaches) a positive glow. Nostalgia is generally positive unless it's so egregious that is infamous (2-10-1). hence Orlando, Eddie and Andy get favorable nods and they were All Time Buckeye Greats with major awards and at least 1 UM victory. I think eventually it will be recognized CJ is amongst the best QBs in OSU history, just right now people tend to look at the shortcomings and what could have been. Fair or not it is what it is.
Muck Fichigan
Insert #NailedIt gif
Stroud will carry the 0-2 legacy more than any guy you mentioned because he is the QB. Had he been 2-0, he would get all of the credit. QBs get too much credit AND blame for team performance, especially since football is the ultimate team sport.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
Who gives a shit about 8 quadrillion passing yards against the trash we play 3/4 of the year? Woohoo 400 yard passing game against the powerhouses of Toledo and Arkansas State! He was responsible for exactly ZERO POINTS in the second half against Michigan this year. Defense could have been better and we still would have lost. Go make your "muh statistics" argument to your Michigan friends and watch them laugh in your stupid face.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
I think a lot of you have forgotten what the rivalry is after winning for so many years. Your Legacy is what you do against Michigan and CJ has a 100% failure rate.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
Is Tom Brady’s legacy that he is responsible for half of John Cooper’s wins in the Game?
#walkaway
"He elevated the program as a destination for quarterbacks. And that is Stroud's Ohio State legacy."
Amazing point
Negativity is a choice I seldom make. Everything has a positive spin. Sometimes you simply have to look a little harder
Pretty Sure Dwayne Haskins and Justin Fields already did that.
Mods on this site are so fragile. They'll censor comments that don't even break any rules and ban you for calling them out on it.
^^^^^^ and Coach Day
Muck Fichigan
"You caint hurt me if you caint touch me" was the reasoning behind Stroud's 'historic' TD run vs Michigan State. Once he realized the Buckeye O-line can protect him, he scrapped his legs until the Peach Bowl.
"Put ya' weight on it"
What could have been. Didn’t Haskins have a shit D too? Then look what happened the next year. Maybe our new starter will have a legit D next season!
The 2019 (the year after Haskins left) defense was truly special, but a big part of it was the player talent. Okudah, Fuller, Arnette, Young, Werner, Harrison, Wade. I'm optimistic about the defense next season but I don't expect it to be quite as dominant. Recruiting misses in the secondary have become more obvious over time. Hopefully Carter can help.
FWIW, I'd take the 2022 defense over the 2018 version any day. 2018 D couldn't stop a freaking nosebleed.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
Everyone wanted him to run more but without the stats I would guess he fared better against pressure/blitz (mostly with escaping and completing passes with eyes downfield) than even Fields who took a lot of sacks trusting his legs in college.
Thank you CJ for an outstanding couple of years. He played out of his mind against Georgia. Really deserved a shot at the NC.
Good luck in the NFL.
Personally, I am totally fine with less spectacular numbers and wins over Michigan and B1G titles.
In my universe those things are more important than stats.
I Hate Michigan.
Sure, but that's apples and oranges. In truth, CJ did everything he could to go undefeated. He never played a subpar game and lost. The closest he came was Oregon his first year. Defense lost us all those games, Team wins/losses and individual stats never belong in the same conversation. That said, always better to win games than awards for an individual and the team, but that was exactly what CJ always said when asked as well.
Steelybuck54
If we're even suggesting that 35 of 54 passes for 484 yards, three touchdowns and an interception, is a "subpar" game for a Buckeye starting QB....sheesh!
Day notoriously has a short leash for backup quarterbacks in relief appearances. Sure would like to see this change. Give the back-up several meaningful snaps in most games with the first string. Build up their confidence and experience. If CJ would have taken a hit during the Peach Bowl and been in concussion protocol, we would have been up a creek without a paddle.
The losses to Michigan obviously are the dark mark on his career, but that was a legendary performance against Georgia.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
Really wanted that UGA win for him as it would have helped his legacy greatly. Every call went against OSU and he still nearly pulled it off. No doubt in my mind with Marv in the game they win.
Well said Ramzy. I hope they can quickly find a quarterback as good as Stroud. It is going to be a challenge.
TDT BSCE
I’m almost 70—so I remember a time when stars in team sports were not ultimately judged by the number of championship teams they were a part of. Perhaps the best example of this: Jerry West’s nickname was “Mr. Clutch” notwithstanding the fact that his Laker teams lost a bunch of times in the NBA Finals to the Celtics and then lost in the Finals to the Knicks before LA won its one and only title with West as a player.
CJ was more impressive than Rex, Craig, and Cardale—the 3 national championship QBs in my lifetime.
I will forever come to CJ’s defense similar to the way (as a diehard Knicks fan) I have defended Patrick Ewing. Trust me, if Patrick had Clyde and The Pearl (or Dick Barnett) as his starting guards and Dave DeB in front court, he would not have gone ringless in his NBA career.
I hope CJ has the opportunity to wear some championship NFL jewelry.
PS—CJ had a terrific TD scramble run last year against TTUN that was called back.
Thanks CJ! and thanks Ramzy for writing this article!
All we have to decide is to cheer on the Buckeyes with the time that is given us
Has there been an official announcement that he is, in fact, entering the draft? Most of us have considered it a foregone conclusion, but is another shot at the Heisman and championships enough of a draw to stay? Though it isn't 1st round, NFL money, he is taking in some cash. Would Coach Day even "let" him stay for risk of losing another future signee?
Still too soon...... :) I can't look at the long run clip and think, what if he had run for two years, would his instincts be better? would he have seen the bounce was to the right where the blocking was setup, and not the left..
Either way, he moved up the board of QBs that get talked about imo... for all the good things CJ did, if that Georgia game ends with us losing by 14-21 points, he would have been in that Todd Boeckman range... For me, and how hard he fought, he's more in the Pryor range...
I know we keep talking about replacing him..... but he still has 5 days to declare, and this isn't the past two decades.. NIL money is real ( or at least should be).. stranger things...
Go Bucks!!!
To discuss your first point, had he run more in his two years, maybe he tears an acl, or incurs another injury from a run. Remember his shoulder (?) injury early on in his first year? I’m just fine with C.J. Stroud’s performance as a Buckeye, and will not critique his efforts in any way.
Arizona Buckeye
How Stroud will be remembered. Gave it 110% against the reigning National Champs in a game for the ages and showed he has dual threat capabilities, but made some untimely passes against TTUN in two tries. Also was a huge catalyst in a Rose Bowl victory with insane statistics. Best of luck to Stroud in the NFL.
I might get DVed but that’s fine. I do wish we could have seen him run a bit more situational when the offense stalled a few times. Don’t know if that is more an issue with Day or Stroud, but I’d take stroud on my team over Bryce Young, who is way to small to play the position.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Stroud was great for the Buckeyes, maybe the best, for all of the reasons Ramzy laid out. And yes, his arm was a much greater assett than his legs as far as his own personal accomplishments and the accomplishments of the team. But in a more scientific look than Ramzy's article, I'd be curious to know how many times he could have run for 5-7 yards without a whiff of being hit by a defender, as opposed to forcing an incompletion or simply throwing it away. And then how many times we had to punt a couple of plays later because of 2nd/3rd and long situations. Again, CJ was GREAT for the Buckeyes and will always have my respect, but his (or his coach's) refusal to pick up the easy yards very well could have cost CJ a Heisman, and the Buckeyes a National Championship.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
It could have cost him a Heisman, but I think saying his reluctance to run costs OSU a NC is a bit of a stretch. Take a look at the first loss under Stroud against the Ducks. That loss fell squarely on the shoulders of Kerry Coombs. And the last loss in Ann Arbor 2021 was not likely to be any different because of the porous defense that OSU played.
FF to 2022 and I do think he could have picked up more yards on the ground Vs Michigan. Could they have won that way? Absolutely, because it would have changed how Michigan played the rest of the game. But even with an undefeated record going into the playoff, the Bucks are likely 2nd seed. And say they roll TCU mad end up playing most likely Georgia again in the championship, we don’t know if the Bucks lose another close one or not. Too many variables involved
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
In regards to the NC, that's why I said "very well could have". It's not a certainty. I don't remember too many specifics from the Oregon game. A quick glance at the game stats shows a ton of yards, but only 28 points with a couple of stalled drives. I do specifically remember feeling CJ could have extended drives a couple of times with a short run. But yes, the defense was atrocious that day.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I agree 100%, 0717. +1. Stroud was a great passer, that's unquestioned. If he had blended in even a little bit of being a running threat those accomplishments would have very possibly been reached. If so, his "legacy" would probably be him being the greatest Buckeye QB of all time up to this point. Lost opportunity,
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
What he showed is there’s more to being a great QB than being a great passer. He’s legitimately the best throwing QB by the numbers that we’ve had. I’m curious about how Haskins would have done with this WR room.
But there were plays missed. Check downs or throw aways that ended as sacks. Incompletions when runs could have moved the chains. And people complained about it for 2 years.
Sometimes being great at one thing isn’t as good as being good at a lot of things.
CJ Stroud lost 4 games in his Buckeye career, and apparently his legacy is defined by those four losses. Well - if that's the case - let's look at those 4 games:
123-185 (66.4%) | 1,575 yds (394 yds/gm) | 11 TDs | 3 INT
CJ Stroud's legacy is pretty simple. He didn't make enough tackles or pass breakups during his two years as a starting QB.
How many 4th quarter Touchdowns in the most recent 2 of those games?
I Hate Michigan.
If he put up numbers like that in the first three quarters, he shouldn’t have to score at all in the fourth.
If only…
Better question....How many points did our defense give up in the 4th quarter of those games. I love how we compare apples to oranges. CJ won more games in spite of our defense. I can't think of one game where I thought " I wish our qb was better". Anyway I hope our next qb is great too. I have a feeling we're going to miss CJ next year.
So he wasn't perfect in all scenarios. I know we all have very high expectations, but perfection seems to be the only acceptable performance grade for some folks. Kinda sad IMHO.
vacuuming sucks
<<End of thread>>
I’d take CJ Stroud as QB1 any day.
“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.” John Wooden
If he runs his legacy would have been like the Georgia game which he was fantastic, Is that CJ or Ryan Day? You can't win a college football game against about a good football team without a running QB, See JJ, Max D and Stenson B They all were a threat to run the ball, but CJ was instructed to not run or refused.
Day turned him loose when Ohio State made the playoffs and were matched against the #1 team in the country. ,
CJ's legacy won't be written for 5 years. If he goes to the NFL and becomes the next Brady or Mahomes, all Buckeye fan bitching about his lack of running while here will disappear and he will officially be the "greatest Buckeye QB ever". Right now that honor goes to Joe Burrow, the Buckeye QB that almost was.
Steelybuck54
I wish that the Browns would trade up for Stroud. They're going to need a QB either very soon once the Watson misadventure comes to it's obvious, pathetic, totally predictable finally: fail or jail, or as the QB of the future after a couple seasons behind Watson. I DO believe that Stroud has the talent and the potential to be a great NFL QB, and maybe that means that he doesn't get thrown to the wolves like Fields. I'd straight up trade Watson to another team to get Stroud. Maybe we can trade Watson BACK to the Texans?
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
Fitting send-off column for CJ. Well presented. We will miss his precision.
His career in big games reminds me of old Cavs headlines from when LeBron was still young. It would say something like "Lebron scores 62; Cavs lose." Now, unlike Lebron, CJ had plenty of offensive help - but the other side of the ball has been bad for CJ. I'm a bit nervous that we'll get the defense trending in the right direction just as we run out of "Heisman Finalist" QB luck and we'll continue our trend of Top 5, but not quite Top 1. It's definitely an envious position from the perspective of teams that don't finish Top 5, but I'm getting greedy.
Lots of great games and effort from #7. Wish we had a few more Wins but we never had a horrible game where the team just crapped. Second half against ttun was bad but they are a good team. I still rate the losses to Sparty and Clemson and Iowa and Purdue from 2015 to 2018 as worse. I despise ttun but they have the most wins ever and the biggest stadium- they should be battling us every year. I would still take 17-4 this century over ttun rather than the flip of that.
In regards to the legacy of Stroud- the quarterback room for the Buckeyes is the place to be. We will get another quarterback ready for 2023.
Michael
Stroud laying it all on the line changed nearly the entire perception of the fanbase. Factually he’s still 0-2 against Michigan and he stated those games don’t define him. Unfortunately in the scope of Ohio State they do. It wasn’t just the play, it was the pressers. He tried his ass off to flip that narrative and I think it worked, but me personally, I’ll remember him as he put it all on the line, but he didn’t finish the deal. Paired with the losses to Michigan… oof.
Wish he could’ve finished the deal, Ohio sports are cursed.
They need a 2 to tie, a 3 to win it; Sylvester for threeeee... OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH WITH FIVE POINT ONE TO GO!!!
It's unfortunate that most of us will immediately think about his 0-2 record vs scUM whenever we see him down the road. It's not solely on his shoulders, he doesn't play defense too. And he really was a phenomenal qb. I'll be excited to see what he does in the league.
ibleedscarletandgray
Don’t know what you got, until it’s gone.
Thank you, CJ and best of luck in the NFL!
I remember (it wasn’t that long ago) how sick I was after the 2019 loss to Clemson. It was robbery by instant replay but the opportunity was still there at the end to get the W and it didn’t happen.
Deja Vu.
The difference now is that Justin came back and got redemption vs Clemson.
This sucks.
Yeah it still sucks but OSU will fight on. Stroud will move in to the pros as the natural progression of things. Sort of wish we had Wypler coming back but I get it from his perspective. New faces for the future but the expectations may never be too far behind.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
As an outside observer who takes a keen interest in the Ohio State Buckeyes, I think that there is a lot to unpack and digest amongst yourselves about the CJ Stroud era. Respect, nuff said.
Keep your friends close, but your rivals, closer.
Very grateful for CJ and excited to see his continued growth and success
From my perspective, wanting CJ to scramble or run more was more the stress of knowing when we did play a great team he would need to use his legs, more than it was thinking he was a wimp. He played well in both TTUN losses, and obviously saved his best game for his final game as a Buckeye. We all knew that he had to be at his absolute best for us to have a shot at UGA, and he did just that AND gave us a shot. That last scramble may have been my favorite moment from his time, which is ironic. Had Ruggles made the FG, or Day called one of those "safe 30 (or just 10) yard handoffs" to get closer that could have changed CJ's legacy forever. We see clips of Ginn, Troy Smith, Devin Smith, Cardale, Zeke, Curtis Samuel, etc,,because when they made those plays on the biggest stages their teams usually won, otherwise the herculean effort was for not. Unfortunately CJ's effort on Dec 31st, although herculean, was for not because of other factors.
O-H-I-O
Stroud will be remembered for having the best arm of any OSU QB in history. His passes into tight windows were a thing of beauty.
Go Bucks!!!!
Man watching that scramble hurts....14 saved the day. He gets Stroud by the shoelaces and if he doesn't he's up field another 4-5 yards at minimum if not more. 29 looks like he has an angle on him but that's only after he's down. I don't think CJ breaks it all the way but he certainly gets it way closer to Ruggles range....
Game of inches.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
I don’t blame CJ for not running more. I blame Ryan Day for not coaching him to run when there’s open field in front of him. This should be a coaching point. Ryan Day is supposedly the QB guru. Coach them to run Ryan.
Also, the running QB has been a missing element of our offense. We need it back. I’m not saying we need to go full on JT Barret. But we need to be able to keep a defense honest.
I just got around to rewatching the Peach Bowl. It was a one point loss that went down to the final play so there were probably a dozen plays, that had they gone another way, would have changed the outcome. While Knowles has been taking a lot of grief on his playcalling, what I remember from watching it live was thinking that UGA's offense was very good and they could make plays against any coverage. That was reinforced by the way they carved up TCU. Watching the main network feed is tough to get the all-22 look, but they scored against us in soft zone as well as Cover-1 or 0.
My take is that this game was lost due to Day's play calling and CJ's decision making on the last two drives (without Harrison - both Emeka and Julian made plays). On the second to last drive, we were moving and had success running at the edges. UGA blitzed the house on 2nd & 5 with 4:04 left. CJ had Emeka open in the right flat, was turned that way, yet turned around into the blitz and lost twelve yards. Emeka might not have gotten the first down but there was only one defender over there. A first down lets them run out a lot of clock.
On the last drive, 1st and 10, the play call could have been a read option - had CJ kept the ball and ran to the right edge, no one was there and could have picked up at least 5-10 yards. It would have been against tendency - or at least call a running play to the edge which had been working for positive yards. On 2nd & 10, the slant pass was well covered, it hit X's hands, but it was high and not into the body or low. And on 3rd & 10, Emeka was wide open in the left flat, CJ looked right at him but didn't throw it. Either of those completions make that FGA easier. You could tell looking at Bennett that he thought it was over after CJ scrambled to the 30.
Like I said, any number of plays could have made a difference, so it's a bit unfair to lay it on Day and CJ after strong performances up to getting to the 30 twice in 4Q. But it was right there if we could have taken it.
Because I couldn’t go for 3
2021 Oregon: Defense sucked ass.
2021 Michigan: Defense sucked ass.
2022 Michigan: Day's playcalling sucked ass. Defense sucked on five plays.
2022 Georgia: Defense sucked ass.
All the best at the next level, CJ. Your performance against Georgia and in last year's Rose Bowl were for the ages. Thanks for the memories.
My memory of Stroud will be a tale of two QBs, with the question of how much of leash he had to wear.
I used to think that CJ was timid, and that he had to "read the script" during every down. The Peach Bowl showed me a different thing altogether, so I wonder what could have happened if we had watched him under three different variables:
-A willing Ryan Day that would have let the man play loose without a script.
-A defensive secondary that would keep the opposing score low enough to not sweat.
-Healthy JSN in the mix, along with 90% healthy running back room.
I can't be down on Stroud now, because he showed me what he looks like, with the game on the line, against the now 2-time National Champs. Did I wish he'd show that at The Game? Sure, but that's water under the bridge now. What's clear to me, is that whomever takes over as QB1 will need to show the same guts that CJ Stroud did against Georgia.
I don't need the best arm. I don't need the best runner. But I do want and need someone who can do both well enough to play with some heroics.