Exactly, never understood why they try so hard to cooperate. UNC and the entire SEC realized long ago that the NCAA has no teeth and if you just tell them to pound sand, you don't get in trouble.
We should have a higher standard than who? Who are we Michigan, pretending we are better than everyone? Rules are only rules if they are enforced equitably and equally across everyone. How'd that work out 2 years ago when we were strict with our Covid testing and lost half our DL for the championship game while Bama hadn't tested in months? If the NCAA ran all sports, the NY Yankees would walk out with aluminum bats, hit 20 home runs, and then deny everything and be allowed to do it.
Would you swear on your life that you never broke a traffic rule? How about throwing away recyclable items in the trash where you have mandatory recycling? Or lied on your taxes and did not declare taxable income like tips or getting paid under the table for doing something for someone? Ever loan money to a family member without charging them interest?
So what about not condoning it but still doing it? Does that make it ok?
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Literally everything you wrote is completely irrelevant. You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior. You also shouldn't make assumptions and imply people are guilty based on your false assumptions.
They don't have subpeona authority so they are reliant upon compliance departments in order to conduct discovery in their investigations. So you actually do have to do the work for them.
Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.
I don't like the vacated wins thing. Vacating a championship trophy may be more acceptable, but you never should take the wins away unless the entire team was complicit. It really isn;t that bad, but the one year no post season is a killer.
OSU doesn't play like the big guys in the SEC and ACC. Those guys never admit to anything and they dare the NCAA to do something about it.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
To hell with the NCAA. I think Dabo is an idiot but he's right about major P5 athletics needing to secede from the NCAA and do its own thing and set its own rules. Only the NCAA would think penalizing a bunch of kids is justification for these penalties. What the hell did the kids do?
Mostly water under the bridge. But still, run fake classes for several decades; no problem. WTF?
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
It's as if the NCAA must occasionally rear its ugly head to prove it still exists by punishing schools that cooperate with its investigations, while others choose to stonewall and as a result, get away scot-free. If Ohio State was wrong, it was wrong; the guilty verdict and punishment bear that out. But until there's a level playing field and every infaction is treated equally, any justic meted out by the NCAA will be a joke.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
There is effectively zero reason to cooperate and self impose penalties in the current structure. OSU has gotten caught up a few times on this stuff and I often wonder what the sanctions would have been if we said f off, like literally every power broker school in the south does, always. 'Member miami....I 'member...
If I can add some perspective - I was on the fencing team in the mid to late 2000s under the coach referenced (Nazlymov). Right, wrong, or indifferent, I don't believe the violations weren't made in bad faith. The "private club" he ran was literally out of the same Steelwood facility that we practiced at. You wouldn't have known that if you showed up at Friday at 7pm that it was any different from Friday at 8am. It was the same staff, etc. They would frequently "optionally" ask us to come in on Friday nights from like 7-10 to practice. It was such a frequent occurrence that no one thought twice about it and seemed like a subtle way to get us to practice more and party less.
Obviously the fact that recruits were involved is why it was a big deal, but I doubt that the coaches thought any differently about it, and weren't trying to hide it. The "free rides" bit makes me laugh because Steelwood isn't convenient to get to and isn't serviced by COTA or CABS, so upperclassmen frequently gave people rides to the facility because they didn't have a way of getting there otherwise. It seems outrageous that the proper protocol would have been to be like "no, recruit, you must walk 2.5 miles to the facility. For it would be an NCAA violation for me to give you this impermissable benefit of a car ride"
I never understand the NCAA. Like giving someone a car ride is going to sway them from one school to another. I guess we can't hold doors for recruits who have their hands full either. That would be an impermissible benefit too.
What I imagine goes on in the recruits head: Everything is the same at both school "A" and "B", buuuutttt "A" were a bunch of a-holes and made me walk to the gym, but "B" gave me that 5 min car ride. That's what it comes down to! I choose school "B".
Thanks for your perspective. I know a couple of tOSU fencers from the late 90s/early 00s. I kind of suspected that the club connection was like you described-ie-nothing nefarious.
I'm honestly impressed that the fencing program was able to commit so many violations...damn, we thought college basketball recruiting was cutthroat!!!
Imagine a speeding enforcement system in which the only way to get a ticket was to drive yourself to the police station and state that you’ve found yourself guilty of speeding.
Alabama, Kansas, UNC, etc. would be driving 100+ mph like it’s the autobahn. Meanwhile Ohio State would proudly announce that they’ve self-reported driving 38 mph in a 35 zone.
This is the difference between Ohio State and programs in the SEC or ACC (among others). You only get punished if you cooperate with the NCAA. The key is to "self investigate" and then tell the NCAA that nothing was found. If the NCAA insists...tell them to stick it and that you will see them in court.
Also, never self-impose sanctions if you do cooperate. The NCAA will always add more sanctions on top of the self-imposed sanctions.
We're talking about $6,000 of who knows what to 3 recruits and use of a health club? Seriously? You can get a workout just about anywhere for almost nothing.
If you read the public infractions report, you'll see that the infractions committee (separate from the enforcement staff) wanted to know why enforcement didn't charge Ohio State with failure to monitor. Looks like it was a close call that went OSU's way, but I'd be wondering why this topic seems to come up with all of the resources the school puts into administration and compliance.
If the NCAA had issued a failure to monitor for this shit, that would all be handled via NIL deals now, I would HOPE OSU would finally show some spine and tell to take a long walk off a short pier.
For real, any organization monitoring college kids that ever penalizes anyone for providing text books - especially to non-scholarship athletes - can go straight to hell.
Everything that happens-good and bad-should motivate you to be persistent. ~JT
The most time I've ever spent caring about women's basketball & fencing just happened in the 45 seconds I spent reading this article,.. and I wish I had that time back.
No, I live in West Hollywood, support homosexuals, and think they're great. Socially triggered much??? Also this gay joke was approved by a lesbian, and she sure does appreciate your internet policing.
I had to look it up, Klein resigned on August 2, 2019. Yes, it was in 2019! Why are they bringing his name up again in 2022? Hasn't this been dealt with already?
So we have schools such as Texas that are promising recruits $50,000 a year to play on the oline ( yes, I know it is boosters) and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it, but they fine and penalize and take away wins from a program that gave away $2,000 each to recruits in some manner to entice them to play for OSU.
For those interested, here is the Infractions review process for the NCAA and the actual committee that judges this and then penalizes.
The really laughable part about this is that all these violations are effectively moot under current NIL rules because they either wouldn't be violations as-is OR there'd be an easy way to accomplish the same thing with a slight change.
Players want to get extra fencing practice in? The players can chat with the owners of the fencing facility, agree to a "NIL deal" where they show up in full OSU regalia for photos, then get free use of the facility as a NIL benefit. No violations, no issues.
Buckeyes' athletic programs are geeky Walter Mittys who dare to nudge 5 MPH over the speed limit while the rest of the NCAA competition blows by TOSU like NASCAR drivers.
Scofflaws are the usual winners, unfortunately.
Go Bucks.
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
Chic put Ohio State football on the map. --- Archie Griffin
This sh!t is absurd. FB players can be paid 7 figures before they step on campus. They can explicitly get benefits as a result of who they are and their athletic prowess. But a member of the fencing team can’t get free visits to a gym because they are members of the fencing team at OSU? That’s completely inconsistent. I suppose it would be ok if the gym paid them $8 to show up and then charged them $8 to get in.
The NCAA has never operated on reasonable logic. If they did they would have no reason to exist anymore with NIL now being a thing (and they know that). That's why every time an SEC program commits a violation Missouri always gets punished for it lol.
Obligatory fuck the NCAA. Those paper tigers can go fuck themselves (and Ohio State really needs to stop playing nice with them during these investigations, nothing good comes out of doing that).
So the fine thing is new to me. Where exactly does that money go? Is the NCAA going to use it to create a website so SEC fans can easier donate money to their favorite recruits?
This whole forum should be typed in italics. I have never ever read such trumped-up, inflated, nothing burger NCAA bullshit. With the probable infinite heap of way more serious violations by other schools (with far less consequences), how in the world can they keep a straight face in investigating and then announcing sanctions on Ohio State. Boys! Get the pitch forks and light them torches!
This is like giving Ted Bundy a fix-it ticket for a broken taillight.
Like arrows in the hand of a mighty warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man whose quiver is full, he shall not be afraid, but shall speak with the enemies at the gate. Psalm 127
Until the NCAA has the power to sue and punish the person or persons who committed the violations they are a joke! If a coach commits a violation worthy of punishment by probation or financial penalties they should be able to sue these coaches for restitutions under NCAA supervision instead of punishing kids who were in Jr High or elementary school when the violation occurred. The Universities cannot govern adults with power to commit crimes unless there can be consequences for the people committing the violations.
Comments Show All Comments
Ohio State needs to take a page out of UNC's book and stop cooperating with the NCAA.
**Bill Self + Kansas have entered the chat **
as has Zion w Clemson/Duke
Exactly, never understood why they try so hard to cooperate. UNC and the entire SEC realized long ago that the NCAA has no teeth and if you just tell them to pound sand, you don't get in trouble.
No SEC board member affiliations? Hmmm.
It is called professionalism. We have and should have higher standard. Rules are rules are rules.
This is the correct answer.
We should have a higher standard than who? Who are we Michigan, pretending we are better than everyone? Rules are only rules if they are enforced equitably and equally across everyone. How'd that work out 2 years ago when we were strict with our Covid testing and lost half our DL for the championship game while Bama hadn't tested in months? If the NCAA ran all sports, the NY Yankees would walk out with aluminum bats, hit 20 home runs, and then deny everything and be allowed to do it.
When someone says they literally dont understand why an individual or organization would act in an ethical manner ...I just shake my head.
I can’t believe anyone would condone cheating.
Buying a text book...is cheating. Giving a guy a loaded F150 for playing catch on for a couple months is ok. Makes sense.
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
Would you swear on your life that you never broke a traffic rule? How about throwing away recyclable items in the trash where you have mandatory recycling? Or lied on your taxes and did not declare taxable income like tips or getting paid under the table for doing something for someone? Ever loan money to a family member without charging them interest?
So what about not condoning it but still doing it? Does that make it ok?
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Literally everything you wrote is completely irrelevant. You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior. You also shouldn't make assumptions and imply people are guilty based on your false assumptions.
There's mandatory recycling??
Life is short. Filled with stuff.
Technically charging interest for family members was forbidden by the old testament law so for Jews and Christians it would be considered sinful.
Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.
You ever hear of a place called Washington DC?
who is condoning it, the NCAA has investigators so let them investigate, it doesn't mean you have to do the work for them.
They don't have subpeona authority so they are reliant upon compliance departments in order to conduct discovery in their investigations. So you actually do have to do the work for them.
Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.
Wow!
RECE MESSMER
I don't like the vacated wins thing. Vacating a championship trophy may be more acceptable, but you never should take the wins away unless the entire team was complicit. It really isn;t that bad, but the one year no post season is a killer.
OSU doesn't play like the big guys in the SEC and ACC. Those guys never admit to anything and they dare the NCAA to do something about it.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
NCAA allows Kansas basketball to do whatever they want and then presents them with the national championship trophy.
Drops the hammer on non revenue sports. NCAA is a waste of time.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
As Jerry Tarkanian said years ago, “the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky, they put Cleveland State on probation”.
TG Proud Buckeye alumnus.
To hell with the NCAA. I think Dabo is an idiot but he's right about major P5 athletics needing to secede from the NCAA and do its own thing and set its own rules. Only the NCAA would think penalizing a bunch of kids is justification for these penalties. What the hell did the kids do?
Upon us all, a little rain must fall
Women's bball coach focusing too much on ball handling. No bueno.
I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.
I Believe In Ohio State.
Mostly water under the bridge. But still, run fake classes for several decades; no problem. WTF?
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
The fact its water under the bridge is a huge problem.
Seriously just tell them to pound sand, they have zero subpoena power and as long as no one talks they have no evidence of anything.
Successful people do what they have to, whether they feel like it or not
It's as if the NCAA must occasionally rear its ugly head to prove it still exists by punishing schools that cooperate with its investigations, while others choose to stonewall and as a result, get away scot-free. If Ohio State was wrong, it was wrong; the guilty verdict and punishment bear that out. But until there's a level playing field and every infaction is treated equally, any justic meted out by the NCAA will be a joke.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
There is effectively zero reason to cooperate and self impose penalties in the current structure. OSU has gotten caught up a few times on this stuff and I often wonder what the sanctions would have been if we said f off, like literally every power broker school in the south does, always. 'Member miami....I 'member...
If I can add some perspective - I was on the fencing team in the mid to late 2000s under the coach referenced (Nazlymov). Right, wrong, or indifferent, I don't believe the violations weren't made in bad faith. The "private club" he ran was literally out of the same Steelwood facility that we practiced at. You wouldn't have known that if you showed up at Friday at 7pm that it was any different from Friday at 8am. It was the same staff, etc. They would frequently "optionally" ask us to come in on Friday nights from like 7-10 to practice. It was such a frequent occurrence that no one thought twice about it and seemed like a subtle way to get us to practice more and party less.
Obviously the fact that recruits were involved is why it was a big deal, but I doubt that the coaches thought any differently about it, and weren't trying to hide it. The "free rides" bit makes me laugh because Steelwood isn't convenient to get to and isn't serviced by COTA or CABS, so upperclassmen frequently gave people rides to the facility because they didn't have a way of getting there otherwise. It seems outrageous that the proper protocol would have been to be like "no, recruit, you must walk 2.5 miles to the facility. For it would be an NCAA violation for me to give you this impermissable benefit of a car ride"
I never understand the NCAA. Like giving someone a car ride is going to sway them from one school to another. I guess we can't hold doors for recruits who have their hands full either. That would be an impermissible benefit too.
What I imagine goes on in the recruits head: Everything is the same at both school "A" and "B", buuuutttt "A" were a bunch of a-holes and made me walk to the gym, but "B" gave me that 5 min car ride. That's what it comes down to! I choose school "B".
Shit Happens Bum Juice
Thanks for your perspective. I know a couple of tOSU fencers from the late 90s/early 00s. I kind of suspected that the club connection was like you described-ie-nothing nefarious.
The NCAA is a WORTHLESS organization an should be disbanded and replaced with an organization with some common sense rules…
Muck Fichigan
A fencing probation is dull and pointless.
I'm on the fence about this joke.
JK, well played
"We didn't play with enough force tonight"
Allez some good puns.
Shit Happens Bum Juice
It’s mostly just sabre rattling.
Maybe we are just missing the point. Sometimes the NCAA just wants to play the foil.
Chicago Fish
'90
My brick by the stadium has my name and "Woody Forever". Let me know if you see it/
Thought it was going to be a lot more epee-ic than it turned out.
Some people are just so touche.
Probably the best seven words I've read this year. Bravo!
Nothing is too difficult for the person that doesn't have to do it.
Our compliance department better be en garde
The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick
I'm still trying to figure out why the call it fencing and not swording.
SalemBuckeye
I'm honestly impressed that the fencing program was able to commit so many violations...damn, we thought college basketball recruiting was cutthroat!!!
"We didn't play with enough force tonight"
Imagine a speeding enforcement system in which the only way to get a ticket was to drive yourself to the police station and state that you’ve found yourself guilty of speeding.
Alabama, Kansas, UNC, etc. would be driving 100+ mph like it’s the autobahn. Meanwhile Ohio State would proudly announce that they’ve self-reported driving 38 mph in a 35 zone.
This is so fucking stupid and the NCAA should be embarrassed to be pursuing nonsense like this that does zero to threaten so-called amateur athletics.
What's the pool on how long this stays on the front page of ESPN??
"BLOOD. THIRSTY. BUCKEYES."
Whatever it is...I am taking the "over"...
I didn't realize the NCAA was still a thing...they're as worthless as tits on a boar ( a dad-ism)
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
Depends on what pronouns the boar uses.
ernie
We chaytin PAWL
This is the difference between Ohio State and programs in the SEC or ACC (among others). You only get punished if you cooperate with the NCAA. The key is to "self investigate" and then tell the NCAA that nothing was found. If the NCAA insists...tell them to stick it and that you will see them in court.
Also, never self-impose sanctions if you do cooperate. The NCAA will always add more sanctions on top of the self-imposed sanctions.
Big whoopee-de-doo.
We're talking about $6,000 of who knows what to 3 recruits and use of a health club? Seriously? You can get a workout just about anywhere for almost nothing.
The rims on some players' cars are worth more than that.
If you read the public infractions report, you'll see that the infractions committee (separate from the enforcement staff) wanted to know why enforcement didn't charge Ohio State with failure to monitor. Looks like it was a close call that went OSU's way, but I'd be wondering why this topic seems to come up with all of the resources the school puts into administration and compliance.
If the NCAA had issued a failure to monitor for this shit, that would all be handled via NIL deals now, I would HOPE OSU would finally show some spine and tell to take a long walk off a short pier.
For real, any organization monitoring college kids that ever penalizes anyone for providing text books - especially to non-scholarship athletes - can go straight to hell.
Everything that happens-good and bad-should motivate you to be persistent. ~JT
The most time I've ever spent caring about women's basketball & fencing just happened in the 45 seconds I spent reading this article,.. and I wish I had that time back.
......so you are into womens golf?
Chicago Fish
'90
My brick by the stadium has my name and "Woody Forever". Let me know if you see it/
No, but they should be banned from going down on their teammates until this scandal is over.
good lord, dude, homophobic much?
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
No, I live in West Hollywood, support homosexuals, and think they're great. Socially triggered much??? Also this gay joke was approved by a lesbian, and she sure does appreciate your internet policing.
The women's bball team is good though, Jacy Sheldon is a speedster who is a joy to watch. They could be even better next year.
I had to look it up, Klein resigned on August 2, 2019. Yes, it was in 2019! Why are they bringing his name up again in 2022? Hasn't this been dealt with already?
So we have schools such as Texas that are promising recruits $50,000 a year to play on the oline ( yes, I know it is boosters) and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it, but they fine and penalize and take away wins from a program that gave away $2,000 each to recruits in some manner to entice them to play for OSU.
For those interested, here is the Infractions review process for the NCAA and the actual committee that judges this and then penalizes.
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/17/division-i-committee-on-infractions.aspx
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2018/3/20/ncaa-division-i-committee-on-infractions-roster.aspx
The really laughable part about this is that all these violations are effectively moot under current NIL rules because they either wouldn't be violations as-is OR there'd be an easy way to accomplish the same thing with a slight change.
Players want to get extra fencing practice in? The players can chat with the owners of the fencing facility, agree to a "NIL deal" where they show up in full OSU regalia for photos, then get free use of the facility as a NIL benefit. No violations, no issues.
Buckeyes' athletic programs are geeky Walter Mittys who dare to nudge 5 MPH over the speed limit while the rest of the NCAA competition blows by TOSU like NASCAR drivers.
Scofflaws are the usual winners, unfortunately.
Go Bucks.
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
Chic put Ohio State football on the map. --- Archie Griffin
This sh!t is absurd. FB players can be paid 7 figures before they step on campus. They can explicitly get benefits as a result of who they are and their athletic prowess. But a member of the fencing team can’t get free visits to a gym because they are members of the fencing team at OSU? That’s completely inconsistent. I suppose it would be ok if the gym paid them $8 to show up and then charged them $8 to get in.
The NCAA has never operated on reasonable logic. If they did they would have no reason to exist anymore with NIL now being a thing (and they know that). That's why every time an SEC program commits a violation Missouri always gets punished for it lol.
11 Strong.
Ohio State to do everything they can in the cutthroat business of fencing. I mean how many millions does it bring in revenue for the university?!?!?
Fencing team out here handing out McDonald's bags?
NCAA...Touche...Go BucksObligatory fuck the NCAA. Those paper tigers can go fuck themselves (and Ohio State really needs to stop playing nice with them during these investigations, nothing good comes out of doing that).
11 Strong.
So the fine thing is new to me. Where exactly does that money go? Is the NCAA going to use it to create a website so SEC fans can easier donate money to their favorite recruits?
This must have been the "scandal" Z-list kept hinting at when he continues to trash the Gene Smith Administration.
Maybe the NCAA needs to be put on probation.
Don't get butthurt just because I have an opinion.
phew.... glad the synchronized swimming team was not involved
puddy
This whole forum should be typed in italics. I have never ever read such trumped-up, inflated, nothing burger NCAA bullshit. With the probable infinite heap of way more serious violations by other schools (with far less consequences), how in the world can they keep a straight face in investigating and then announcing sanctions on Ohio State. Boys! Get the pitch forks and light them torches!
klusewski
The NCAA is irrelevant. Ohio State hasn’t figured that out yet.
Try not to suck
We should get double the penalty for McGuff’s (totally natural looking) hairpiece. That thing needs a chinstrap.
This is like giving Ted Bundy a fix-it ticket for a broken taillight.
Like arrows in the hand of a mighty warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man whose quiver is full, he shall not be afraid, but shall speak with the enemies at the gate. Psalm 127
The NCAA is so mad at the SEC that it is coming after the Buckeye's non-revenue sports.
Ohio Valley Cat
Why does the NCAA penalize and punish the innocent?
The fencing coach Nazlymov retired in 2018.
The assistant women's basketball coach Klein resigned in 2019.
So in 2022 the NCAA penalizes the current and future athletes? Hello?
All of that on top of Ohio State's self-flagellation.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
Until the NCAA has the power to sue and punish the person or persons who committed the violations they are a joke! If a coach commits a violation worthy of punishment by probation or financial penalties they should be able to sue these coaches for restitutions under NCAA supervision instead of punishing kids who were in Jr High or elementary school when the violation occurred. The Universities cannot govern adults with power to commit crimes unless there can be consequences for the people committing the violations.
Gene Smith is an idiot kiss ass to the NCAA.
Go Bucks! TTUN tears are best! Beat Wisky!!!
ouch!
Faster, tougher, and more violent...