“Then again, it seems as though Day's teams have had a penalty problem ever since he took over for Urban Meyer in Columbus prior to the 2019 season. Ohio State has never been among the top 49 teams in the country when it comes to penalties per game during his tenure.“
Certainly an indictment on discipline, which goes to coaching. Aggressive, effort penalties are usually acceptable, just don't make a lot of them. The mental, lack of focus, and lack of discipline penalties are unacceptable. We'll see if Coach Day and staff can tighten up and limit the penalties.
There’s absolutely no excuse for the unsportsmanlike like penalties. It is a sign of a lack of discipline, which is on Ryan Day. John Cooper’s teams had a problem with them and Day’s teams do as well.
That said, the refs made a really bad call on the pass interference where the ball was thrown way above the Michigan receiver. It was not a catchable pass. In addition, there were a couple of pass interference calls that should have been made against Michigan. They interfered with Marvin Harrison at least twice.
go back and watch the PI, the receiver created the contact by extending his arms in to Hickman to gain space. That play could have been a no call or offensive PI
The receiver got a hand on the ball. I thought initially it was not catchable, but when I saw the receiver get to the ball on the replay, I knew they would not rule it uncatchable. Unfortunately, that's the right call.
The PI looked at lot worse than it actually was. The contact did not impede the receiver from catching the call. That said, because the secondary was getting beat so bad on plays and running full speed to get back into the play (out of phase), everything looked like PI.
"You ever hear of the saying "you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens
I agree that was a horrible call for pass interference in the end zone that allowed them to get a touchdown instead of a field goal which was a big momentum changer besides the fact that calls were very inconsistent because there was a lot of jersey grabbing by Michigan's defensive backs not called.
No excuse for multiple false starts at home either. You know the snap count and can hear the QB, I don’t care if it looks like they’re about to pass rush you.
What triggered Gee Scott into giving that head butt? All the Buckeyes should have known that Michigan would be chirping in an effort to make them lose their cool.
The team was so jacked up to play well it led to mental mistakes. There’s a fine line in there that day and the coaching need to get to. It’s an important factor in that game and others.
Lol I in no way used that as an excuse. I actually used it as a negative on their preparation to be so ultra focused on being physical they forgot to play smart.
I don't think anybody is scared of Ryan's wrath. It's just my opinion, I could be way off base, but discipline doesn't apear to be OSU's strong suit under Ryan Day. They aren't scared if they don't practice hard. They aren't scared if they don't study the gameplan. They aren't scared if they get penalties. They were scared or Urban, they talked about it all the time. A little discipline could go a long way, and handing off the play calling duties and separating himself from those things an OC should do will go a long way. If Urban got involved in the offense or defense, it was because something was seriously wrong.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
I agree with you on this stant. I am the farthest thing from an "insider", but from people I know who are closer, they will say yes, there was quite a bit of tension when Meyer was the chief. Fickell learned to teach his players how to maneuver around it, but it was there. Joshua Perry has spoken about always "looking over his shoulder" in the event the would lose his starting job. Meyer is the last national champion coach we have had. He was in more ways than we give him credit, a lot like Saban.....until he wasn't in 2015. Net/net, none of us really has any idea what goes on inside the WHAC, but I think we are getting a pretty good inkling from analysis like this, that there is an accountability issue -- or better said, it LOOKS like there is an accountability issue on this team. And yes, that starts with Day. If the team was playing on Saturday and Gee Scott played in the first half, we would see all we need to know.
I'm curious as to what happened on the illegal snap for the fake punt. Did Mason begin to snap the ball to Rossi and something happened so he stopped? Why did he think the fake punt was called off after the penalty?
The refs were sure as shit not calling holding on TTUN's DBs. However, they showed good discipline and were typically in phase with the receiver. Our DBs certainly were not, thus the PI calls.
"You ever hear of the saying "you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens
The Jacckson / Scott combo of penalties actually cost them 59 yards net, there was a 24 yards pass completion deep in Michigan territory taken off the board plus the 35 yards in penalties. I have yet to see an explanation of the reason behind the unsportsmanlike penalty that has been credited to Stover and here it is credited to Baptiste, either way not acceptable.
FWIW the snap count reports indicate Stover is on the punt team.
Agree. Have to change it up every few years. Teams figure you out. NW showed in 2020 how to slow us down. Didn’t work for a whole game but the blueprint was there. 2 high safety’s and make us drive the field or run it.
I don't understand why there's this much of an issue with a team that has all this talent. Gee Scott, Jr's penalty was probably one of the more frustrating ones. I was hoping that he would have a break-out type of season this year, but instead he saw very little action, and when he did see some in this game he decides to act in a fashion that makes him the perfect poster boy for "Thug Life, Ya'll".
What could that Michigan player have possibly done or said that made him react that way? I don't care if the dude said, "Hey, Gee....had fun with your Mama last night," you've gotta know better and not make yourself look like the thuggish douchebag.
What could that Michigan player have possibly done or said that made him react that way?
It seems that the Wolverines try to get Buckeye players to react to their extra hits (when an opponent is already down) or to putting a shoulder into a Buckeye chest after the play is long over. It's on the video if you watch the game again. A few years ago. there were the 4 TUN players that surrounded/pushed a Buckeye player on a kick return (Ray Small?) that got another Buckeye ejected at the big house for protecting his teammate.
We don't hear what TUN players are saying to opponent players, or what opponents say back. But with such thuggish physical behavior being tolerated along with that, one cannot be surprised by the tunnel fights, etc.
So, is the B1G doing anything about it? If notified of this ongoing unsportsmanlike behavior before the game, the refs might start penalizing AND ejecting them. That might diminish it. Until then, the Wolverines are playing the B1G refs like a cheap fiddle. AND drawing poor sportsmanship penalties on their opponents.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
Second quarter, 6:09 2nd-and-6 (UM 24) False start (Dawand Jones) C.J. Stroud throws two straight incompletions following the five-yard penalty and Ohio State punts on 4th-and-11.
My son noticed earlier in the year the Ohio State seemed to be very undisciplined. It's great to have all the talent we have but if they can't maintain composure it makes things very tough against good teams. It also appears that Harbaugh and his coaches have closed the talent gap that we normally have. Let's hope the cards fall right and we get another shot at them in the CFP.
Disagree about the talent level differential. OSU issued a play by play beat down the entire first half. It was entirely mindset and discipline (OSU weak and lacking, UM strong and regimented) that kept UM in the game and made doubters of OSU players in the second half. The real issue here appears to be that Day has assumed toughness to be a largely physical thing and has largely not instilled mental fortitude in his players to overcome when things don't go their way.
I love Big Brother, and the 11W commenting policy.
So will any journalist (pffft) ask him about the unsportsmanlike penalties? Specifically G Scott head butting another player unprovoked ? i mean that’s assault imo. He should be suspended indefinitely as well as his scholarship till the BIG makes a ruling.
Assault? They both had helmets on during a football game. I guess you think targeting on the field should be considered assault as well? Because there's a lot more kinetic energy being unloaded in those cases.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
targeting happens during a football play on the field. this happened out of bounds well after the play was over. had nothing to do with football. maybe assault is a little harsh. i could care less if he ever puts on a TOSU uniform on again.
You have to play a complete game to beat the good teams. You have to play disciplined fundamental football for 60 minutes. Excel at making the routine plays.
Staying in position to make routine tackles in space, don't drop passes that you have caught all season, execute blocks. Michigan had to play a 60 minute game the week before and executed on both sides of the ball and special teams in the fourth quarter. OSU also had to play a 60 minute game, behind at the half and was struggling in the fourth quarter to put away an inferior team Maryland team. Maryland had the ball with a chance to win the game before Zach Harrison made two huge plays.
It's easy to say in retrospect, but the game basically ended right there on that double-whammy.
If that play holds up, OSU has first-and-10 from the 25, down 24-20. Score there and it stops TTUN's momentum from building.
Instead, it's effectively a 48-yard penalty (!) and the drive is dead because nobody anywhere has a plan for 1st-and-35. TTUN gets the ball back, goes on a long 8-minute TD drive, you're down two possessions in the 4th quarter, and all the pressure is on Ohio State.
My original post was made in jest. We fans are in no position to make a difference. We can only hope the coaching staff does a good job at that, and then there would be lots to talk about and praise.
Penalties come down to discipline, or lack thereof, and simply just caring about the little things.
That's part of it, but they also seem to play "tight," too mentally wound-up, and then some of them crack at key moments. I think that's the main contributor to the false starts, especially early in game. Also helps explain Gee Scott's head butt. He just snapped.
Ross Fulton may misidentify the cause (dunno, maybe he's right), but I agree with the overall diagnosis. Michigan's players look like they crave the challenge. Ohio State's players, many of them anyway, look like they're scared to screw up.
Day did tighten up in the 2H, while Harbaugh kept swinging (RB jump pass). I think that OSU is too wrapped up in the goofy we dont say Michigan, etc and its resulting in them being tight, while Harbaughs we respect OSU & its a tough challenge is resulting in looser play
— Ross Fulton (@RossRFulton) November 27, 2022
We need to stop focusing so much on Harbaugh and instead look at what his OC and DC were calling and doing in the booth and on the sidelines. Harbaugh isn't calling plays for the most part, unlike Day. Harbaugh credited that win to his staff, and rightly so.
Michigan knew they could win, but they also didn't have the ridiculous pressure on them to win from the media and their fans. Even the local papers in Detroit were picking OSU to win. Much different psychological pressure on 18-22 year olds.
We need to stop focusing so much on Harbaugh and instead look at what his OC and DC were calling and doing in the booth and on the sidelines. Harbaugh isn't calling plays for the most part, unlike Day. Harbaugh credited that win to his staff, and rightly so.
THIS...he took a page out if his brother John's book and lets his coordinators call the games. If they're successful, he praises them--if not, he fires them...pretty easy recipe to follow.
Agree, and let me add that half of the delay of game penalties would go away if coach Day gave up the play calling, imo. I think coach Wilson is able to see far more from the box than a coach on the sidelines can see.
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
We need to stop focusing so much on Harbaugh and instead look at what his OC and DC were calling and doing in the booth and on the sidelines.
Respectfully, you're missing Ross Fulton's point. He doesn't say Harbaugh is a better micro-manager. He says he's created a better mental atmosphere to draw out the best in his players, while Day's team tightens up and second-guesses itself.
The long-snapper didn't send the ball to Mirco instead of Rossi because of bad playcalling. His head was probably swimming, so he reverted to muscle memory and snapped the ball to the wrong guy, killing what could have been a game-winning drive.
Michigan knew they could win, but they also didn't have the ridiculous pressure on them to win from the media and their fans.
Yes, agree, it's always good to be the underdog, but I think something more is going on here.
It's obvious to me we played extremely tight and lost composure.
When you have a talent advantage, the message needs to be to play within yourself and make the routine plays with extraordinary consistency. No one needs to be a hero. Play loose and execute the simple fundamentals of the game.
Penalties come down to discipline, or lack thereof, and simply just caring about the little things.
Amen!
The lack of discipline has concerned me for the past few seasons. I was encouraged by the benching of players following mental mistakes, but it hasn't seemed to matter. Whatever the coaches are doing obviously isn't getting results. They are just poorly disciplined, there's no other way to put it. They can make all the excuses they want in press conferences by isolating each play and explaining it away, but something isn't right. I don't know how they fix that, but they need to figure it out yesterday.
I agree with the commenters above regarding Day's easy going approach. There doesn't seem to be any fear of consequence from the players when they make mental errors--they shouldn't be afraid of Coach Day, but they should be afraid to constantly be making mental errors.
Like I said in a previous thread, Day is a nice guy from Rhode Island, and Urban is an asshole from Ashtabula...who would you be more intimidated by?
Discipline and focus were the difference between the two teams on Saturday. Our coaching staff needs to figure out how Alabama, Georgia, TTUN, etc. can maintain discipline during a game and why we can’t.
You may be on to something. harbaugh could care less what anybody thinks. ryan day is probably too uptight about appearances and playing nice with star players.
I just think it all goes back to fall camp and those early games where you should be setting the standard. If you don't have discipline in camp and then into week 1 and week 2 good chance you wont have it in week 12 and week 13.
To me it just goes back to who Ryan Day is as a person. He's supposed to be the boss, you should be a little afraid of the boss. Instead he wants everyone to like him, he's like the happy go lucky neighborhood Dad, who says "kids" when some 5 year old is tearing up the flowers.
It just permeates throughout the team. That whole no matter what you do there aren't any consequences. That's how you get lack of discipline. Instead of just shrugging his shoulders after 7 penalties against ND and 9 against Ark State... it should have been, penalties aren't acceptable... if guys can't stop creating them, they are going to the bench. You create accountability that way..
But again that's who he is.. look at when we got up a few scores and he pulls the starters.. starters go over on the sideline and just talk to each and joke and pay almost no attention to the backups playing in the game. Again. it's all just too relaxed... no discipline.
Another example would be that Northwestern game.. instead of getting off the bus and saying I don't care what the weather looks like, we are going to play Ohio State football, and anyone who doesn't want to do that can take their candy ass back to the bus... but what did we get? in the pre-game our head coach is talking about how he doesn't want to be there because the weather is so bad... and we got a team that didn't want to be there because the weather was so bad..
If Day took away playing time from week one, things may have gone differently. The only leverage coaches have is playing time. Period. If you're not willing to take away playing time, there is no incentive to modify behavior.
EDGE? He keeps using that word... EDGE was developed by Urbz by having the asshole factor. That factor is gone for all the reasons we already rehashed on these forums over the years now, BUT I really don't think Ryan has kept that culture there. He needs to lead by example and get rid of the comforts that are counter to the ruggedness and EDGY mentality that the players need to understand that they need on game days.
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
From Ark State to Toledo it seemed like the message was received, but they were all over the place all season with penalties... man, drive killers, no question.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
A little revisionist history going on here - Urban Meyer teams best ranking in penalties was 50th, according to teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game...he wasn't known for having disciplined teams at Ohio State, the 2018 team was one of the worst in the country at 124th. Penalties are actually (except for 2019, which was much improved) not much changed from Meyer to Day, with Day showing a small improvement. It only took a few minutes to find this information and I must say I'm a little disappointed in a staff article that obviously couldn't be bothered to do the same. Fire away!
RCD teams have a concerning lack of discipline. No consequences to the players either. Funny how they claim to have depth but are afraid to utilize it when players can't even remember the snap count, or head butt someone out of bounds. .
You have some of the best talent coming out of high school here at OSU, there is no reason for this team to NOT be undefeated. We even out-recruited Michigan and Alabama.
Ryan Day does not develop talent, he uses it up and sends them off to the NFL. Gene Smith is inevitably at fault. Tress was a great coach and was railroaded just like Urban. That's how he gets rid of coaches. What's up for Day?
You have some of the best talent coming out of high school here at OSU, there is no reason for this team to NOT be undefeated. We even out-recruited Michigan and Alabama.
outrecruited Alabama ? When? One year?
. Gene Smith is inevitably at fault. Tress was a great coach and was railroaded just like Urban. That's how he gets rid of coaches.
Gene is at fault for hiring the best guy for the job? Yes. The last two games haven’t gone our way but he hired the right guy!
Go away and root for Michigan
Urban himself was even penalized 15 for unsportsmanlike conduct over the head-to-head targeting of Dwayne in the Michigan game. But it sure motivated the team!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
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“Then again, it seems as though Day's teams have had a penalty problem ever since he took over for Urban Meyer in Columbus prior to the 2019 season. Ohio State has never been among the top 49 teams in the country when it comes to penalties per game during his tenure.“
This.
Certainly an indictment on discipline, which goes to coaching. Aggressive, effort penalties are usually acceptable, just don't make a lot of them. The mental, lack of focus, and lack of discipline penalties are unacceptable. We'll see if Coach Day and staff can tighten up and limit the penalties.
Muck Fichigan
What's not mentioned is no Urban Meyer Ohio State team ever finished that high, either.
He explicitly said a few times he didn’t care, which I always found infuriating.
TBDSNITL: The best damn screen name in the land!
There’s absolutely no excuse for the unsportsmanlike like penalties. It is a sign of a lack of discipline, which is on Ryan Day. John Cooper’s teams had a problem with them and Day’s teams do as well.
That said, the refs made a really bad call on the pass interference where the ball was thrown way above the Michigan receiver. It was not a catchable pass. In addition, there were a couple of pass interference calls that should have been made against Michigan. They interfered with Marvin Harrison at least twice.
go back and watch the PI, the receiver created the contact by extending his arms in to Hickman to gain space. That play could have been a no call or offensive PI
Absolutely!
Oste
The receiver got a hand on the ball. I thought initially it was not catchable, but when I saw the receiver get to the ball on the replay, I knew they would not rule it uncatchable. Unfortunately, that's the right call.
The PI looked at lot worse than it actually was. The contact did not impede the receiver from catching the call. That said, because the secondary was getting beat so bad on plays and running full speed to get back into the play (out of phase), everything looked like PI.
"You ever hear of the saying "you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens
I agree that was a horrible call for pass interference in the end zone that allowed them to get a touchdown instead of a field goal which was a big momentum changer besides the fact that calls were very inconsistent because there was a lot of jersey grabbing by Michigan's defensive backs not called.
No excuse for multiple false starts at home either. You know the snap count and can hear the QB, I don’t care if it looks like they’re about to pass rush you.
What triggered Gee Scott into giving that head butt? All the Buckeyes should have known that Michigan would be chirping in an effort to make them lose their cool.
I'd rather be an hour early than a minute late.
If I had to pick a most infuriating moment, I'm thinking that was it.
Had I been head coach, that young man would have been sent to the locker room and not come back. There really is no excuse for something that stupid.
The team was so jacked up to play well it led to mental mistakes. There’s a fine line in there that day and the coaching need to get to. It’s an important factor in that game and others.
Thats just an excuse! Michigan was just as jacked up. They didn’t have dumbass penalties
Lol I in no way used that as an excuse. I actually used it as a negative on their preparation to be so ultra focused on being physical they forgot to play smart.
Yup those killed Ohio State, especially the one by Gee Scott, that killed any momentum they had.
I don't think anybody is scared of Ryan's wrath. It's just my opinion, I could be way off base, but discipline doesn't apear to be OSU's strong suit under Ryan Day. They aren't scared if they don't practice hard. They aren't scared if they don't study the gameplan. They aren't scared if they get penalties. They were scared or Urban, they talked about it all the time. A little discipline could go a long way, and handing off the play calling duties and separating himself from those things an OC should do will go a long way. If Urban got involved in the offense or defense, it was because something was seriously wrong.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
I agree with you on this stant. I am the farthest thing from an "insider", but from people I know who are closer, they will say yes, there was quite a bit of tension when Meyer was the chief. Fickell learned to teach his players how to maneuver around it, but it was there. Joshua Perry has spoken about always "looking over his shoulder" in the event the would lose his starting job. Meyer is the last national champion coach we have had. He was in more ways than we give him credit, a lot like Saban.....until he wasn't in 2015. Net/net, none of us really has any idea what goes on inside the WHAC, but I think we are getting a pretty good inkling from analysis like this, that there is an accountability issue -- or better said, it LOOKS like there is an accountability issue on this team. And yes, that starts with Day. If the team was playing on Saturday and Gee Scott played in the first half, we would see all we need to know.
Agreed, Stantmann. Perhaps Ryan Day is stuck in OC-mode and has not yet leveled-up to HC, in his mind?
TBDSNITL: The best damn screen name in the land!
I'm curious as to what happened on the illegal snap for the fake punt. Did Mason begin to snap the ball to Rossi and something happened so he stopped? Why did he think the fake punt was called off after the penalty?
The refs were sure as shit not calling holding on TTUN's DBs. However, they showed good discipline and were typically in phase with the receiver. Our DBs certainly were not, thus the PI calls.
"You ever hear of the saying "you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens
The Jacckson / Scott combo of penalties actually cost them 59 yards net, there was a 24 yards pass completion deep in Michigan territory taken off the board plus the 35 yards in penalties. I have yet to see an explanation of the reason behind the unsportsmanlike penalty that has been credited to Stover and here it is credited to Baptiste, either way not acceptable.
FWIW the snap count reports indicate Stover is on the punt team.
So much John Cooper vibes emanating from this coaching staff / team…
as a 37 year old who lived through the Dark Times , this is very very unsettling
Comparing a 4 year coach to a13 year coach is a bit presumptive.
Oste
I think Days offense never changes he's very predictable in his play calling.
wiremans
Agree. Have to change it up every few years. Teams figure you out. NW showed in 2020 how to slow us down. Didn’t work for a whole game but the blueprint was there. 2 high safety’s and make us drive the field or run it.
I'm good with running the ball down the field. I don't like incomplete passes and interceptions.
I don't understand why there's this much of an issue with a team that has all this talent. Gee Scott, Jr's penalty was probably one of the more frustrating ones. I was hoping that he would have a break-out type of season this year, but instead he saw very little action, and when he did see some in this game he decides to act in a fashion that makes him the perfect poster boy for "Thug Life, Ya'll".
What could that Michigan player have possibly done or said that made him react that way? I don't care if the dude said, "Hey, Gee....had fun with your Mama last night," you've gotta know better and not make yourself look like the thuggish douchebag.
It seems that the Wolverines try to get Buckeye players to react to their extra hits (when an opponent is already down) or to putting a shoulder into a Buckeye chest after the play is long over. It's on the video if you watch the game again. A few years ago. there were the 4 TUN players that surrounded/pushed a Buckeye player on a kick return (Ray Small?) that got another Buckeye ejected at the big house for protecting his teammate.
We don't hear what TUN players are saying to opponent players, or what opponents say back. But with such thuggish physical behavior being tolerated along with that, one cannot be surprised by the tunnel fights, etc.
So, is the B1G doing anything about it? If notified of this ongoing unsportsmanlike behavior before the game, the refs might start penalizing AND ejecting them. That might diminish it. Until then, the Wolverines are playing the B1G refs like a cheap fiddle. AND drawing poor sportsmanship penalties on their opponents.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
This is just whining. Please stop
I don’t think Buckeye Nation will ever forget Gee Scott’s penalty… rooting for him to bounce back from it!
Ohio State actually kicked a field goal.
My son noticed earlier in the year the Ohio State seemed to be very undisciplined. It's great to have all the talent we have but if they can't maintain composure it makes things very tough against good teams. It also appears that Harbaugh and his coaches have closed the talent gap that we normally have. Let's hope the cards fall right and we get another shot at them in the CFP.
George W. Phillips
They absolutely have NOT closed the talent gap. Harbaugh realized they he couldn't close the talent gap so his only option was to out coach us.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
Disagree about the talent level differential. OSU issued a play by play beat down the entire first half. It was entirely mindset and discipline (OSU weak and lacking, UM strong and regimented) that kept UM in the game and made doubters of OSU players in the second half. The real issue here appears to be that Day has assumed toughness to be a largely physical thing and has largely not instilled mental fortitude in his players to overcome when things don't go their way.
I love Big Brother, and the 11W commenting policy.
What was JBB penalty for?
So will any journalist (pffft) ask him about the unsportsmanlike penalties? Specifically G Scott head butting another player unprovoked ? i mean that’s assault imo. He should be suspended indefinitely as well as his scholarship till the BIG makes a ruling.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
Assault? They both had helmets on during a football game. I guess you think targeting on the field should be considered assault as well? Because there's a lot more kinetic energy being unloaded in those cases.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
targeting happens during a football play on the field. this happened out of bounds well after the play was over. had nothing to do with football. maybe assault is a little harsh. i could care less if he ever puts on a TOSU uniform on again.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
give me a break
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
yep a hard facemask is worst than a headbutt with helmets on
Penalties kill. Lack of adjustments kill. Getting burnt in man-to-man kills.
Quite a few things kill. About all that can be pondered at this point, is whether there is still time to correct enough, moving forward...
You have to play a complete game to beat the good teams. You have to play disciplined fundamental football for 60 minutes. Excel at making the routine plays.
Staying in position to make routine tackles in space, don't drop passes that you have caught all season, execute blocks. Michigan had to play a 60 minute game the week before and executed on both sides of the ball and special teams in the fourth quarter. OSU also had to play a 60 minute game, behind at the half and was struggling in the fourth quarter to put away an inferior team Maryland team. Maryland had the ball with a chance to win the game before Zach Harrison made two huge plays.
One of three things: 1 - nerves. 2 - lack of discipline. 3 - just trying to make a play
CBus love
Meyer also had penalty issues.
The gee Scott jackson double whammy was the breaking point.
The Hickman PI was the nail in the coffin.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
It's easy to say in retrospect, but the game basically ended right there on that double-whammy.
If that play holds up, OSU has first-and-10 from the 25, down 24-20. Score there and it stops TTUN's momentum from building.
Instead, it's effectively a 48-yard penalty (!) and the drive is dead because nobody anywhere has a plan for 1st-and-35. TTUN gets the ball back, goes on a long 8-minute TD drive, you're down two possessions in the 4th quarter, and all the pressure is on Ohio State.
Yea but the play itself doesn’t happen without the holding.
Could we please just stop talking about it?
The only way to do that is to fix it. Then, there's nothing to talk about.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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My original post was made in jest. We fans are in no position to make a difference. We can only hope the coaching staff does a good job at that, and then there would be lots to talk about and praise.
Ah, gotcha.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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That's part of it, but they also seem to play "tight," too mentally wound-up, and then some of them crack at key moments. I think that's the main contributor to the false starts, especially early in game. Also helps explain Gee Scott's head butt. He just snapped.
Ross Fulton may misidentify the cause (dunno, maybe he's right), but I agree with the overall diagnosis. Michigan's players look like they crave the challenge. Ohio State's players, many of them anyway, look like they're scared to screw up.
We need to stop focusing so much on Harbaugh and instead look at what his OC and DC were calling and doing in the booth and on the sidelines. Harbaugh isn't calling plays for the most part, unlike Day. Harbaugh credited that win to his staff, and rightly so.
Michigan knew they could win, but they also didn't have the ridiculous pressure on them to win from the media and their fans. Even the local papers in Detroit were picking OSU to win. Much different psychological pressure on 18-22 year olds.
THIS...he took a page out if his brother John's book and lets his coordinators call the games. If they're successful, he praises them--if not, he fires them...pretty easy recipe to follow.
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
Agree, and let me add that half of the delay of game penalties would go away if coach Day gave up the play calling, imo. I think coach Wilson is able to see far more from the box than a coach on the sidelines can see.
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
Respectfully, you're missing Ross Fulton's point. He doesn't say Harbaugh is a better micro-manager. He says he's created a better mental atmosphere to draw out the best in his players, while Day's team tightens up and second-guesses itself.
The long-snapper didn't send the ball to Mirco instead of Rossi because of bad playcalling. His head was probably swimming, so he reverted to muscle memory and snapped the ball to the wrong guy, killing what could have been a game-winning drive.
Yes, agree, it's always good to be the underdog, but I think something more is going on here.
That's why they planted the flag on the Block O...
I'd rather be an hour early than a minute late.
It's obvious to me we played extremely tight and lost composure.
When you have a talent advantage, the message needs to be to play within yourself and make the routine plays with extraordinary consistency. No one needs to be a hero. Play loose and execute the simple fundamentals of the game.
Gee Scott Jr's bags should be packed. If I were the coach he'd be gone. You do that in the most important game of the year, your ass is gone.
Amen!
The lack of discipline has concerned me for the past few seasons. I was encouraged by the benching of players following mental mistakes, but it hasn't seemed to matter. Whatever the coaches are doing obviously isn't getting results. They are just poorly disciplined, there's no other way to put it. They can make all the excuses they want in press conferences by isolating each play and explaining it away, but something isn't right. I don't know how they fix that, but they need to figure it out yesterday.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
I agree with the commenters above regarding Day's easy going approach. There doesn't seem to be any fear of consequence from the players when they make mental errors--they shouldn't be afraid of Coach Day, but they should be afraid to constantly be making mental errors.
Like I said in a previous thread, Day is a nice guy from Rhode Island, and Urban is an asshole from Ashtabula...who would you be more intimidated by?
Faster, tougher, and more violent...
Discipline and focus were the difference between the two teams on Saturday. Our coaching staff needs to figure out how Alabama, Georgia, TTUN, etc. can maintain discipline during a game and why we can’t.
You may be on to something. harbaugh could care less what anybody thinks. ryan day is probably too uptight about appearances and playing nice with star players.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
I just think it all goes back to fall camp and those early games where you should be setting the standard. If you don't have discipline in camp and then into week 1 and week 2 good chance you wont have it in week 12 and week 13.
To me it just goes back to who Ryan Day is as a person. He's supposed to be the boss, you should be a little afraid of the boss. Instead he wants everyone to like him, he's like the happy go lucky neighborhood Dad, who says "kids" when some 5 year old is tearing up the flowers.
It just permeates throughout the team. That whole no matter what you do there aren't any consequences. That's how you get lack of discipline. Instead of just shrugging his shoulders after 7 penalties against ND and 9 against Ark State... it should have been, penalties aren't acceptable... if guys can't stop creating them, they are going to the bench. You create accountability that way..
But again that's who he is.. look at when we got up a few scores and he pulls the starters.. starters go over on the sideline and just talk to each and joke and pay almost no attention to the backups playing in the game. Again. it's all just too relaxed... no discipline.
Another example would be that Northwestern game.. instead of getting off the bus and saying I don't care what the weather looks like, we are going to play Ohio State football, and anyone who doesn't want to do that can take their candy ass back to the bus... but what did we get? in the pre-game our head coach is talking about how he doesn't want to be there because the weather is so bad... and we got a team that didn't want to be there because the weather was so bad..
Go Bucks!!!
If Day took away playing time from week one, things may have gone differently. The only leverage coaches have is playing time. Period. If you're not willing to take away playing time, there is no incentive to modify behavior.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
EDGE? He keeps using that word... EDGE was developed by Urbz by having the asshole factor. That factor is gone for all the reasons we already rehashed on these forums over the years now, BUT I really don't think Ryan has kept that culture there. He needs to lead by example and get rid of the comforts that are counter to the ruggedness and EDGY mentality that the players need to understand that they need on game days.
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
From Ark State to Toledo it seemed like the message was received, but they were all over the place all season with penalties... man, drive killers, no question.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
A little revisionist history going on here - Urban Meyer teams best ranking in penalties was 50th, according to teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game...he wasn't known for having disciplined teams at Ohio State, the 2018 team was one of the worst in the country at 124th. Penalties are actually (except for 2019, which was much improved) not much changed from Meyer to Day, with Day showing a small improvement. It only took a few minutes to find this information and I must say I'm a little disappointed in a staff article that obviously couldn't be bothered to do the same. Fire away!
Having said this, penalties were a killer the last two games against TTUN.
RCD teams have a concerning lack of discipline. No consequences to the players either. Funny how they claim to have depth but are afraid to utilize it when players can't even remember the snap count, or head butt someone out of bounds. .
Try not to suck
You have some of the best talent coming out of high school here at OSU, there is no reason for this team to NOT be undefeated. We even out-recruited Michigan and Alabama.
Ryan Day does not develop talent, he uses it up and sends them off to the NFL. Gene Smith is inevitably at fault. Tress was a great coach and was railroaded just like Urban. That's how he gets rid of coaches. What's up for Day?
"and there he is... The Big Kat"
outrecruited Alabama ? When? One year?
Gene is at fault for hiring the best guy for the job? Yes. The last two games haven’t gone our way but he hired the right guy!
Go away and root for Michigan
Penalites are only bad when they happen at the wrong time in the game.
Urban's team may had penality problems but I can not remember too many happening at the wrong time.
Urban himself was even penalized 15 for unsportsmanlike conduct over the head-to-head targeting of Dwayne in the Michigan game. But it sure motivated the team!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
Lack of discipline.
Ryan, please be their coach and not their buddy.
OSUAlumInAZ