Stock Up/Stock Down: Jim Harbaugh Beats the Bucks Again, J.J. McCarthy Shines in First Rivalry Start, Ryan Day Earns Criticism And Jim Knowles' Defense Doesn't Cut It
If I have to watch the defensive backs next year flailing their arms trying to blindly knock a ball away instead of turning their heads to find the ball I am going to lose it. I am trying to think, did a cornerback have a single interception this year? Knowles was overhyped because the big ten is generally bad on offense and they just had better athletes. Come down to teams that can play on offense, they looked bad.
Hey, Coach Day, learn from the MASTER, Jimmy Hairball---take a pay cut. Maybe that will light a fire, where THE GAME has importance again. Worked for the maize and blue, right?
I was wondering when the turning of the heads would come up, Dude Get a clue!! this is one of the stupidest posts you have ever made!! haha IMHO you already lost it!
Is the Rose Bowl not considered a big game? Or Penn State on the road? I’m disappointed and pissed too but we still win big games, just not all of them.
Puzzling play calling and Stroud's refusal to run the ball has hamstrung this offense against top tier opponents. Three points in the second half. No idea what to say about the defense other than need better corner and tackle play.
It'll be interesting to see how the offense rebuilds with questionable depth at tackle and a new quarterback.
The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick
On known running plays, we'd be 100% better off if we ran the wildcat with xavier johnson. at least the defense would have to be kept a little honest knowing XJ might keep it. With CJ... lol.
Wondered the same thing myself.. Day is supposed to be an offensive genius, but can't come up with any short yardage packages out of the wildcat? Third and short its almost always a quick slant or screen pass, and fourth and short... well, we all saw it.. take the FG or punt in plus territory. Ridiculous.
Could you imagine if USC or TCU blow it this weekend and OSU plays GA. Their D will kill Stroud bc they know he won't run. He'd be like a sitting duck for them to tee off on. Similar to this last Saturday. Or he'll inexplicably throw up a hope and a prayer with 5 to 10 yards of open green in front of him. It drives me as nuts as the PI calls bc our dbs play like they're still in Pop Warner. It's sad that ttun's coaches are killing OSU's by being intense and way smarter. It's sad...
As Bob Dylan once said, The Times They Are a Changing....
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Stock Up: CJ is soft and refuses to take what the defense gives him.
I’ve been saying it all year. CJ is not a dawg. He refuses to run when it is given, and is soft. I’ve been down voted a lot for saying as much, yet lo, it is what it is.
we need a dawg at QB, but hey, he has great stats!
CJ Stroud could have gone down as an all-time great here, but he'll go down as a bad memory of what could have been. The stats are great, but he never beat TTUN and he never won anything that mattered (the Rosebowl was a consolation prize let's be honest). I wouldn't even put him in the top 5 of Ohio State QBs at this point, but that could be the bitterness talking.
Stroud arguably throws (or threw) the prettiest football pass of anyone I have watched in college football in over 50 years. So did Art Schlichter and what did that get him? No. Stroud will not go down as one of Ohio States' greatest QBs even though statistics will tell another story. I will always think of him as a great kid, not a great leader. And lastly, if he thinks OSU fans are unforgiving, his eyes will get really wide opened when he gets to the NFL. I actually sorry for him, putting his anticipated $$ earnings aside.
“ I will always think of him as a great kid, not a great leader.”
This! As a passer, not really anyone can compare with Stroud (except maybe Haskins RIP). And I want to be careful here because I’m not a 21-22 year old young man trying to please 100+ fans, but Strouds body language after incompletions—throwing hands up in the air, slumped shoulders, look of frustration—is telling. Attitude on the field reflects leadership on the field.
Stroud is a 7 on 7 QB who will not make it in the NFL. Glad he’s gone now, threw a great ball, but I legitimately think he’s afraid to get hit despite his size.
Give me Troy, JT, Braxton, Cardale, Guiton, Fields, Haskins, Krenzel, Pryor, and Germaine over Stroud.
I'd take him over Bauserman, Zwick and Boeckman, so there's that.
Will be interesting to see if Day incorporates zone reads back into the offense with McCord, and/or if McCord looks absolutely terrified of absorbing contact.
I hate to sound bitter, but I truly was never on Team CJ...if he had beaten UM once, I'd be eating crow and singing a different tune. But here we are. Everything sucks right now.
“Success is the inner satisfaction and peace of mind that come from knowing I did the best I was capable of doing for the group” - Coach Tressel
Not to kick a dog when they are down, but he never won a meaningful game (don't count the Rose Bowl as that didn't have the pressure like regular season.
Oregon was his first test. He didn't pass. Michigan was his second. Yea he threw for a lot of yards, but still a loss.
Great kid. Great stats. But always seemed to lack the "it" factor you see in Caleb Williams, Bryce Young, etc.
He has a top 5 arm and last place heart due to absolute refusal to run when necessary. Game on the line some quarterbacks would die to pick up one first down. Stroud won’t even take a hit! Not his fault because he did throw passes that were nice and dropped but run it for the first and don’t even have to consider a drop! I’ll
Harbaugh and his staff absolutely deserve credit for their game plan (and their second consecutive victory in The Game). Harbaugh’s overall record in The Game though is still a miserable 2-5—something no coach would ever aspire to.
Sadly I think they have a better shot of winning again next year, from what they did this year. Go from 0-5 to 3-5 in three years ain't bad. They start recruiting better because of their success against us, and we have turnover in the coaching staffs, and then they'll really get rolling. Sad.
I'll push back on that. They lose a bunch of lineman on both sides of the ball-- and for the first time in a while, they might actually have a bunch of underclassmen declare for the NFL draft. We *should* be absolutely loaded next season-- especially if we hit the portal for a couple depth pieces.
In a roundabout way, TTUN and Harbaugh were the biggest beneficiaries of the Covid season. Yes, they went 2-4, but avoided getting demolished at the Shoe and the extra year of eligibility gave them more time to develop less talented players and allowed them to play with a very experienced, grown man roster the last 2 years.
And I'll push back on that. McCord/Brown are unknown quantities. We literally haven't seen them throw passes in games. Miyan Williams may go pro, and we'll have a lot oft-injured players or limited experience in that RB room. Johnson and Jones go pro on the OL. We going to magically get better there? McCallister graduates, Hickman already declared. The CBs suck. We're in trouble next year.
McCord started a game as true freshman and looked better than Stroud had to that point. It’s his 3rd year in the program so a big drop off at QB isn’t happening. I would bet we upgrade there tbh.
We’re loaded at RB… Hayden, Henderson, Pryor, Chip… and incoming freshman. Zero concern there even if Miyan declares.
Fryar will start at one OT. We might not be as good in pass pro but should be better run blocking.
The CB room needs to get WAY better. That is true. But Sonny should be an absolute stud on the back end to go with Ransom and whomever wins the 3rd safety spot. I gotta believe Eichneberg and Chambers will be back to be possibly the best duo of LB in the country. The DL should be good. Just need growth in year 2 of Knowles system.
They lost Hutchinson and Ojabo and we still couldn’t score. The fact is since Justin Fields left we have trouble scoring more than around 25 points against good competition. I don’t really think it matters who they lose at this point right now Day needs to do some major soul searching about his play calling and how the program is being run overall.
I'm not as down on Knowle's as most people ( I guess). He knows how to Coach, we brought him in to run his system, but he had to do that with Coombs players. It was always going to be a work in progress, that should bare fruit a few seasons down the line as they recruited to that system,.
We saw problems all the way back to the Notre Dame, and too many people said "corners will be fine".... the failing to me, after we hired Knowles, is why on earth didn't we go the portal route to find some corners that match his system? it just messes everything up. Every level takes a hit because they have to help our corners out..
None of our corners would start at Bama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Penn State... etc... etc.... for decades that was never the case.. I'm not even sure they would start for most B10 teams..
agree 100%. could see issues with the secondary all season and it really showed when we played anyone who could throw the ball. this was Knowles first year, if it does not improve next year i could see us parting ways. definitely needs to hit the transfer portal even if it means processing some current players out. that play on the field saturday was unacceptable.
Agree with you and Tcm about Knowles. He inherited this DB room (all of it) and the coaches brought in to coach it. We will see and judge him by what transpires in the off season (I expect x-fers out and in) and next year. He owns the mistake of calling 0 coverage blitz that TTUN scored its first TD on. He left his DB on an island, but sometimes those kids need to make plays. If JJ gets sacked on that play, it would have been a brilliant, aggressive call that may have changed the entire game. Alas, we (and Knowles) got burned. Gotta own the results too, but I won't grab a pitchfork regarding him....at least not for now.
In my opinion, Knowles called a good game. Cam makes the EASY tackle the game doesn’t go off the rails. Martinez doesn’t turn his back on the ONE assignment he has as the deep coverage safety this game is 20-10 at half.
At some point you have to trust your players. You can’t play for them.
I will suggest that RD not running Chip more was a problem,. He had great success. You want to show you’re tough, run him down their throats. Guess what? It then opens up the passing game. Don’t so cute.
Day is a great coach. Knowles is a great coach. We are in good hands.
One last thing: we can get tsun again this year. If both SC and TCU lose we go to 3 and get them first round. If only one loses we might get them in the title game.
I said the same thing earlier about Knowles. Not many are talking about the defense holding Michigan, arguably the top rushing offense in the nation, to just 10 rushing yards in the first half. The two Michigan TDs were on busted plays that the DBs failed to stay with the receiver. The game was lost immediately after the opening drive when Day started calling the bubble screens and horizontal plays that haven’t worked all season. Like always, he was going to make these plays work and show everyone. If Day just sticks to the opening drive plays, the game is likely over at the half.
Our DBs are the gift that keeps on giving.. I'd be willing to bet he called those stupid ass bubble screens all season because they worked every time in practice against our DBs..
You do realize Corum the Heisman candidate didn’t play and Edwards played with a broken hand? And Edwards still crushed us. Can you imagine how many yards they could have had together or the score?
Great post. This is more about player identification, recruitment, and development. Im not sure about Walton, but he didn't recruit most of these guys.
Yep, that BIA is no longer valid to our corners or their coaches. It's now just an acronym for BS.
Without winners there wouldn't be any gosh darn civilization. We make no apologies for winning or for aiming our entire program toward that goal. - Woody Hayes
How many DPI’s can a team get to extend scUM drives by not using proper technique? Just watch OSU DBs this past weekend and you’ll see what not to do when trying to make a play on the ball. Coombs’ imprint is still stuck in these players’ minds. That has to be erased next season. How many times can a QB get bailed out on a third and long, when our defensive front and LBers make plays on 1st and second down only to see that hard work erased by stupid DB play? Bailing out McCarthy is exactly what they did time and time again.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
The pass interference calls were made because the safeties were burnt and out of position. They were trying to make up ground and hell Hickman turns his head on the second pass interference call and he intercepts the pass, it hit him in the back. Turn your head around and make a play on the ball and either play is pass interference. Getting beat with a player behind the defense with 3 safeties on the field is just insane to me. Should change our safeties names to liabilities. That’s what they are.
I think it's a shame for CJ's Heisman hopes to "crash" after clashing with the #3 team, #1 defense, hated rival TTUN. I cannot express how much more difficult running through a season in the B1G as OSU's QB1 is than whatever path Caleb Williams went through. The PAC12 is lily white soft, and I'd argue a WORSE conference than the AAU has been over the last decade. Clearly the worst of the P5 conferences, only slightly better than the shitpiles of the ACC and B12. But whatever. We'll see how the voters vote, but clearly CJ Stroud has had a much tougher row to hoe in two years as a starter. Couple that with his (Williams') "stabbing in the back" of the Sooner program, well, we know who the better man is, hardware or not. "Recency bias" I think they call it. Where were the Williams backers when they lost to Utah? That's right.
How am I "delusional?" The P12 is breaking up FFS!!! USC and UCLA are now "B1G 10" teams for all intents and purposes. Conferences that are not shitshows do NOT break up. Same with the B12. Oklahoma and Texas are SEC teams now. Where am I losing you? The P12 hasn't been good since Pete Carroll left USC 20 years ago. The flash in the pan that is Oregon (and now USC) is an aberration and the death rattle of a conference that is about to go kaput. So they have a bunch of ranked teams right now. Big deal. On balance, they've been uber weak in bowl games and overall OOC head to head. Again, USC AND UCLA ARE LEAVING. lmfao. I guess we'll have to wait and see in the bowl games. Point stands. now, where's my lithium?!
cant agree with you on this. we would (will) get smoked by washington, oregon, usc for sure. probably by oregon state. pac12 is just as talented and maybe even deeper than the BIG this year.
You must harbor some really deep hate for the PAC 12. Can't blame you. If you are an "old timer" like me, there are a lot of scars. USC. UCLA....both cost us multiple national championships.
But when you look at both conferences top to bottom, the comparison is not even close. The Big Ten was a joke this year. Let's not cater to revisionist history here, please. And that "lily white soft" PAC 12 banner carrier last year put up 40 points on us in the Rose Bowl. Oregon beat us in our own house. C,mon, oldtowne.
JJ McCarthy’s stock is up? I guess so with the W, but dammit, Malik Hooker could have renewed his plates at the DMV and still been able to intercept his floating, underthrown balls. Secondary was garbage and hasn’t improved in a few years. Knowles deserves criticism for trusting them so much. They lost us the game more than anything else.
Alcohol will not solve any of your problems, but then again, neither will milk or water.
Agree somewhat Chark. McCarthy kept throwing up arm punts and our DB's were so bad they weren't even with 10 yards of the receiver. Why do they think he had trouble all year long completing passes - especially long ones? The db's were at least in the neighborhood. Agree that Knowles deserves criticism for not adjusting in game.
However, our offense deserves the lionshare of the credit for the loss. We should have EASILY been up 28 or 35 to 10 at halftime and the game is over. We let them hang around with stupid penalties and mistakes and bad play calling. If we don't go to the portal and bring in several decent db's, I will scream. We also need some NASTY Oline and Dline recruits. For Day, it's time to stop worrying about hurt feelings and worry about job security and winning the only damn game that really matters.
I feel bad for the kids who played their hearts out and were let down by team mates for poor performances or in the coaches who recruited and trained players who were not good enough to start at OSU.
Two years in a row now - complete failure to achieve any team goals.
The reason I feel our poor secondary lost us the game is because any competent (or even halfway-competent) CB/DB/S should have turned those into interceptions instead of big completions. We have the ball, they don't score. It also allowed McCarthy to build some confidence. Did you notice how tight Michigan's coverage was on our receivers? Yes, there were a few drops of well-thrown balls from Stroud, but a fair amount of them were incompletions because the coverage men made excellent plays. The rest of the defense was more than adequate (30% better, at least...)
Yes, the bad penalties (holding, false start, etc.) didn't help, nor did the STUPID penalties by Stover or Scott Jr., but those by themselves didn't lose the game for us.
Yes, the boneheaded play calling hurt us. Bubble screens and RB pitches to the outside didn't work, same as it's been all season. I'd be surprised if Hayden stays since we somehow thought the 5th? string LB/RB was a better option. (Not to take anything away from Trayanum's solid performance)
I still think Stroud is the best passer OSU has ever had, but you never saw him fired up or willing to give everything to come out with a win. There were more than a few times with 10-20 yards of wide-open turf in front of him and he chose not to run. Definitely lacking in leadership compared to others we've had with less arm talent. In the end though, he will be remembered as not reaching his goals.
I'm most interested to see how Day plans to fix this.
Alcohol will not solve any of your problems, but then again, neither will milk or water.
Jim Knowles was supposed to give Ohio State a defense that could beat Michigan in a rematch, and through most of the season, it looked like that was a real prospect. It didn’t come to fruition on Saturday, though, as Michigan put up more points on the Buckeyes than last year.
There seems to be a senterment that it was Knowles fault for not winning the game. I'm not sure that's fair. I think Day made several tactical mistakes, particularly not going for it on 4th down and short or from near midfield. And, there were some key plays that UM made so I think you have to put some of that execution or lack thereof on the players. I also think Knowles did what he could. The blueprint for beating UM was stopping the run and hoping McCarthy couldn't beat you. So , he loaded the box and dared McCarthy to beat him deep. After McCarthy hit a few deep balls Knowles the moved the safeties back and UM found success on the ground. Despite the recruiting rankings, it turns out OSU did not have enough talent to shut down both the deep balls & the ground game. They had to pick their poison and I don't think that's Knowles fault. That's probably more of a roster issue, or possibly an injury issue to the DBs if that's the case. I also don't think OSU sees this kind of offense all year and probably don't have the ability to duplicate it in practice. UM is not fairly unique in that they have this style of play with enough talent to impose it. Teams like Wiscy or Illinois may also, but don't have the talent.
The mercurial Michigan head coach can confidently say last year’s rivalry win was no fluke, and he’ll get no pushback on the subject.
Kuddos to giving credit where it's due. JH got his fair share of crap and most of it was deservedly so after blowouts in 2018 & 2019 and the abysmal 2020 season. I didn't expect 11W to give him his due credit for turning things around. In retrospect Brown was great at defending Meyer's offense and not very good at Day's offense. It makes you wonder how 2018 & 2019 would have turned out with a different defensive coordinator at UM. It turns out the coordinators make a big difference.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I'm with you in that I put the blame on Day, not Knowles. I said in another post that the game should have been 27 or 34-10 at half had Day not gone about play calling as though he has wet his pants and had another gallon to go. They go in at half up by that score, the run game is not an option for Michigan and Knowles can focus entirely on preventing the pass.
But the pressure of the moment got to Day. Add in the fact that his playcalling has been shit for three years now and it's quite easy to understand the "they wilt against teams with a pulse" commentary.
But again, there's been a lot of talk this year about complimentary football. That means both sides helping each other out. Had the offense scored what it was supposed to in the first half (e.g. 27 to 34), well that eliminates the need to worry about the run for the defense. Asking any defense to stand up to power run for four quarters is a tough ask against an average team. SO, had the offense done what they were supposed to, the defense doesn't buckle in the second half. Ergo, all on Ryan and his cowardly playcalling for failing the defense.
Maybe he likes the back and forth without being a prick about it. He said nothing in his post that I (for one) disagreed with. He could have flamed his post to say what is now obvious after 2 consecutive brow beatings at the hands of Michigan: that it is time to bury the idea that we have a huge talent advantage over them. I think the evidence to kill that notion has now been made clear (when you exclude our WRs).
One, I hate posting on MGB and the other UM sites, although I do enjoy reading the main page content at MGB. Two, I tend to be a bit contrarian which means I don't like to do what everyone else does. Three, I'm generally curious about the thinking of rivals. And four, I find outside of our rooting interests I have more in common with OSU fans on average than UM fans.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Idk, Knowles deserves his share of blame. Illinois gave us a blueprint the week before, but we never once tried that look on D.
This goes back to what we have seen all season. Other teams see what works against us and incorporate it into their game plan (see TTUN running NW styles defense all game). While the Bucks line up the same way as always and seem to say “It will work this time”. But as talent gaps shrink, our standard sets work less and less….odd how that works.
Can't duplicate scUM's offense leads to misjudgement on how good/bad your DTs are against the run and the necessity of recruiting some(not just one) HS DTS that are SEC/NFL type DTs that forces the DC to commit secondary to be weak in pass coverage. We have a new DC that is comfortable and experienced VS. a non-rungame offense. Our recruiting philosophy has to change upfront. Sure you need DEs but same emphasis should be on the right kind of DTs..it is NOT now and if that doesn't change immediately we can look to the same ass kicking up front as the 2nd half and last year's games against scUM and Oregon. Harbaugh, sadly had it right.
Can't duplicate scUM's offense leads to misjudgement on how good/bad your DTs are against the run
I don't necessarily think that's the case. I'd guess OSU just doesn't rep all the run game looks UM will give them and don't have the run blockers that UM has. OSU seems to have a bunch of tackles playing guard. Generally your scout team is your freshman or 3rd string. It's hard to match Keegan, Olu, & Zinter with that when that was not what they were recruited to do.
Our recruiting philosophy has to change upfront.
I honestly don't see a DT recruiting issue. I do think OSU's DEs are finally coming back to earth. Just because they are a 5-star or top 100 type recruit does not mean they will turn into a Bosa bro or Chase Young. It's highly unlikely even a 5-star will produce the way those guys did and you had so many elite ones in such a short time frame that it probably gave you unrealistic expectations. They are fine, just not good enough to get organic pressure without blitzing consistently against good o-lines. Saying that, I think JTT will be very, very good next year. But, I think the recruiting issue is more with the DBs.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Born on third base. Khaki plagiarized the quote, but it fits. You cant expect a receiver to have a 350 yard day every time we face a good opponent. Bad news Michigan didnt get better. They were this good in 2018. OSU dropped a level and now on Penn State level. So now we are in a pickle and got ran back to second base. They looked like a team that quit. That is the culture. So how do you come back from that.
We must recruit the best kids in America instead of the best kids with the best families. It’s about the kid not the family. They can have a family at Ohio State if there home life isn’t that good. Doesn’t mean take felons but it’s about the player! Go get the baddest dudes in America instead of soft kids who’ve not fought for anything in life. Spoiled kids cry when the bully punches them in the mouth and their parents call the principal. We need the kid who fights back and beats the bully down! Problem solved.
Stock up: Eleven Warriors articles and commentary about the game. Honest about our performance, realistic about what this means to them personally and relatable to what it means to us as fans. I appreciate the collective professionalism, while enduring the pain of a fan.
Stock up: Eleven Warriors commenters.. Most of the comments seem very thoughtful, honest, pragmatic in the face of a painful experience. This is THE GAME that matters most...everything hinges on it. Beating Michigan, winning the big10 and being in the CFP all flushed down the toilet.
Stroud is such a good guy. I hate to see him go out like that, not just for us as fans, but for him. He is right though, he will be remembered as the QB who couldn't beat Michigan.
Knowles strengthened the front 7, but the secondary failed terribly. I know there is some serious talent back there, so that is not the issue. It 100% falls back on coaching. They need to review this years games to see what they did wrong, and correct it. If they can't do it, they need to step aside or get replaced. There is no excuse for the secondary to be that bad at OSU.
I can excuse both of Edwards TD's, those were garbage TD's where OSU was selling out to the middle in desperation. The front 7 is not the problem. It was the secondary that failed them saturday, and every game where the QB was not afraid to throw the ball. That's all on the coaches.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
I agreed with your post, stant....but I am not sure about the DB talent assumption you are making - at least in absolute form. I do agree that the handshake exchange that sent Coombs to UC in return for one of our coaches looks like a loser for us. One thing is for sure: Knowles and his entire D staff are likely on a 1 year contract going forward and I would not be surprised (and certainly proven wrong) if there are personnel changes in store for the off season - perhaps for coaches and players.
Coach Day has to instill the mental fortitude and "refuse to lose" attitude toward ttun as demonstrated by Urban and Tress. It seems the situational awareness and capacity for perspective in-game are being swamped on the sideline. For next season, as Coach Day did in bringing in Knowles to fix the defense, Coach Day would be well-served to give play calling duties to Wilson and to get a run-game coordinator. Running the ball should be table stakes at THE. Recruiting nasty guys in the trenches and players worthy of DBU has to be prioritized. If Coach Day does not attack these issues, he risks being a good coordinator/bad head coach label, which then has negative collateral effects. He has won 90% of his games with his current formula, but he has to make adaptations to ensure success in big-stage games. Go Bucks!!!
^^^1000% this ^^^
I'm not ready to kick Day to the curb but he needs to do exactly this, otherwise he should be kicked as far away from The Ohio State University as possible!
JJ McCarthy reminds me of Tom Brady beats you while smiling his ass off. RCD most certainly must of seen more in C.J. then I ever did. He's not what the NFL is looking for in a QB. Still don't believe he will ever start a game in the NFL. There's not a single pure cornerback in the Buckeye CB stable. Haven't recruited well at the position and the coaching has been very questionable for years. Might want to look to the portal to find a couple of hard hitting head-hunters. Also, team discipline is badly needed. Find a quarterback not afraid to run and who can take a hit. Can't have drive killing penalties and unnecessary interceptions on offense, DPI's on defense, and bush league personal fouls in the 12th week of a season and not expect it to have an impact on a GAME.
Somebody will take a chance on him in the first round but his stock has gone down an awful lot this year. Really wonder how much of him not running is him vs Day's not wnting him to run. Haskins was always reluctant to tuck it and go as well - although Fields was a very willing runner, and Stroud is quicker than Haskins. Seems like early on in his time at OSU it was decided and/or he was coached to always try to keep looking downfield first when he moves, which is good at times but you have to be willing to scramble and run for yardage in today's game. Whichever NFL team drafts him will have to coach/force him to start doing so, or he will be a bust.
If Day isn't coaching him to take the 5-10 yards of green in front of him and slide, that is horrible, horrible coaching. I believe it was more Stroud hoping he could sit back and wait for a receiver to get open and hit a 30-40 yard bomb than it was being coached to not run at all. Problem is, that puts you behind schedule way more often than you'll hit that bomb.
As for the NFL, I just can't see him being successful. The whole damn team had quit by the fourth quarter... where was the Heisman candidate leader trying to get guys fired up? For that matter, where was the HC getting guys fired up?
If you have to tell the press and the fans that "I did everything I could, there was no stone left unturned" at a press conference when clearly their were many stones left unturned, you're not a true leader. You're a guy trying to convince yourself you were a leader. Those kinds of comments should be coming from coaches and fellow players, not from yourself.
For no reason. Kid has done very well no matter when the ball was given to him. Williams ran great all year but so has Dallan. He was snubbed in this game for no reason other than being a freshman in my opinion. Treyveyon has regressed big time. On his first Carrie’s he had a jump cut that made him seem like he’s the no. 1 RB recruit. Now he runs into defenders and goes down. He’s not a power back but a finesse pack. I get take the 1-2 extra yards by going forward but you have to juke sometimes and that’s his game. IDK. Too much to need fixed that does seem like the players are coached to do. Let the players be there own which is what we recruit them for and quit trying to make them what we want them to be. You want a power back, recruit one. Don’t recruit an electric back and try to make them a power back, won’t work. It seems we want the same team every year instead with different players instead of changing our philosophy based on personnel. WTF are we doing?
Knowles may have been great at Oklahoma State but I am seriously questioning that decision right now. Yeah I get he had Coombs players but damn...Coombs didn't shit the bed this bad against Michigan's pass last year
Good point...that legitimizes Knowles. Michigan had 297 rushing yards last year and Knowles was able to get that down to 242...basically all in the 2nd half. Michigan was 14/20 for 190 yds last year passing and 12/24 this for 263 passing this year...4 more throws.
IDK...I'm not an expert like everyone else on here but just a dumb observer.
.Coombs didn't shit the bed this bad against Michigan's pass last year
No. But he did against Oregon. That aside.....I am sure he and Stud had some shit-eating grins on their faces as they fell asleep on Saturday night. Well...at least until Coombs found out his boss took another job.
Honestly, I'm not that down on Knowles. He called the defense he promised to call. It's not on him that Cam Brown missed a tackle, or that Cam Martinez bit on a double move, or that Lathan Ransom didn't cover the TE on the RB throw. He left those guys on an island,, which is exactly what he said his defense will do. They just all made mistakes. Day, on the other hand, was erratic (at best) in his play calling. If Trayanum is running the ball like a wild man, keep giving him the ball! Maybe Hayden should have had more than 2 carries. We were bullying them in the first half, and then spent the entire second half playing not to lose. Maybe Day needs to hand over play calling duties. A great leader recognizes his own shortcomings, and it appears that he can't be a HC and an OC at the same time.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I agree with your running the ball assessment, but I do put this Defensive breakdown on Knowles. We all knew we had poor corners and he puts them on an island with that scheme? Especially after Corum is out?
Also, these defensive players are 4 stars. Knowles had 12 games as well as preseason to teach and train them. He didn't period. These guys are as good athletically as Iowa or Wisky or Michigan or most other teams .Before the game 97.1 had clips of Doran Grant and other former defensive bucks saying they didn't even recognize what the cornerbacks were doing or being taught. That's a pretty spot on indictment.
I get it that they may still be suffering from Coombs poor involvement but that only goes for the first few games. After that its a lack of coaching. We saw the same thing with Chris Ash defense in 2014 suffering for the first couple games, including VA Tech, and then develop into a beast that year.
Sorry, but McCarthy's "Stock Up" status is more smoke & mirrors than it is reality. As soon as Michigan enters the playoffs, assuming they do, he's going to be shown for the hack he really is. Be sure to give him the "royal wave" as they carry him out on a stretcher.
IMHO, McCarthy is still a B+ quarterback, but improving enough that I'm excited for next year. The "stock up" is from the B or B- that people had him pegged at in the last few games.
Other strengths: (1) he's pretty well balanced in terms of throwing ability, running ability and judgment - not top of the charts on any of them yet, but pretty good at all of them and (2) he's got a ton of heart. He doesn't give up, he takes responsibility when a play is on him, and he doesn't get shaken by a cold streak.
I'd love it if he evolves into a Heisman candidate before he leaves Michigan, but for now, I'm happy with what we've got.
LOL - I guess I end up here when I really want to talk football and there's nothing left to read on MGoBlog and /r/CFB. I appreciate you guys for having me. (And for what it's worth, I thought my opinions on JJ were worthwhile, but it looks like the board disagrees, which is fair enough.)
I don’t believe CJs comment of”this game doesn’t define us as a team” was directed at OSU fans. I believe it was a statement to the CFP committee, but unfortunately, the throngs of insanely emotional fans decided to make it into “he doesn’t care about this game because he’s from California “ as they search for coaches and players to blame for the loss.
I thnk the comments that he doesn't care about the game because he's from California are insulting. That kid lived and breathed OSU football for 2 straight years. You can't live in the 614 and not care about this game. He gave everything he had and I personally think he was over-coached into being scared to throw and to run. He had all the talent in the world and he regressed nearly every game this year. Maybe he didn't outwardly show fire, but I think he was a fierce competitor. His choice of words are unfortunate, and they will haunt him, but I think that is a kid being defensive in a tough spot.
I think the same about Day. I never thought he didn't care, or try hard enough. He definitely coached not to lose and he seems to lack the in game awareness needed to drive a Ferrari offense.
Don't eat the salad. They are trying to poison us.
Our CBs have played poorly all season long. Coach Day went out and hired a fantastic CB coach from Cincinnati, Eliano. What does he do? Day puts Eliano in the safeties room and brings in a coach from one of the worst teams in the NFL to coach CBs.
Put Eliano in the CB room next year and find someone else to coach the safeties.
I was sitting at a hotel bar Saturday night defending Stroud and a gentleman leaned over and said "Joe Germaine beat TTUN, won a B10 title and Rose Bowl that mattered and how many of his jerseys do you see around town?"
Early in the season I would have said Stroud would easily be in the running for #1 overall pick in the draft. But at this point, I don't know why it's such a foregone conclusion that he's leaving for the NFL. While I still love the guy and think he'll be one of the best to ever play QB at OSU, I think he's shown that he has some real holes in his game that elite opponents are exposing. Personally, I think he'd be well served to stay another year, beat TTUN, win the Heisman, compete for the natty, and polish his game up before going to the NFL. That being said, I certainly won't fault him if he wants to leave. That's just the nature of the business these days.
I wish Stroud the best as well. But if he comes back, do you really think anything will change next year, gold? Sure...gaudy stats. Lots of TD passes to MHJr. Lots of missed opportunities to convert 3rd down because he won't run. No desire to step up in the pocket and make throws. Losses to good teams that have figured him -- and Day out. At least one of our QBs leaves. Then....what?
Totally agree with you. It only makes sense for him to come back if him and Day are committed to making changes and addressing those holes. Otherwise it would be a complete waste of time. I don't need to see another season where he puts up monster numbers, but we don't win the games that matter. But I would love to see him redeem himself.
Plenty of folks up here in northern Ohio — where we have to put up with "Walmart Wolverines" because that crap is, literally sold at WallyWorld and people who couldn't even find their way to Ann Arbor with GPS actually buy it — think the better plan for Stroud and JSN is for them both to return. Stroud has eligibility left, of course, and JSN could petition NCAA right now for a medical redshirt for this year and it would be granted. He's played so little since the injury in Game 1 that there isn't an issue in getting the medical waiver for the year.
Then both would be more seasoned and likely have better numbers for the 2024 draft.
But neither is likely to do so. They'll pull the trigger for the draft because of the siren song of the $$$$$$. I agree with many comments on this thread that Stroud has a high probability of being a bust in the pro game if he goes to the draft this year.
Stock down: The play book. No creativity and at time’s success it not achievable. There was never an answer when the opponent know what’s coming.
stock down: The DB’s. Not just Saturday. We’ve seen all season that the opponent recognizes the Buckeyes don’t look for the ball. Third and long, WR’s simply stop and come back to the ball to draw the PI.
I like Cam Brown as much as anyone, but it is a sad state of affairs when you're "contending" for a Natty and he's your best DB (by far). Also the inability to get to McCarthy despite sending 6-7 guys a lot was really disappointing, and compounded the problem. You don't get to the passer and leave mediocre DBs on an island, you make JJ McCarthy look like Dan Marino.
To me the #1 reason we lost was the DB play. If they are not up to snuff for the “Mad Scientist “ D then why put them in that position Play them back so the can break on the ball. We don’t break on the ball, it’s a clown show. That’s on Knowles. They were horrible.
Stroud is a very good QB, I’d take him over that JJ any day. He’s not a runner, doesn’t look good at it at all. I believe we should have come out with 2 RB in the backfield. Give them something they haven’t seen….I don’t get it
I'm still numb. But recognizing that last year was no fluke is not only eye-opening but somewhat comforting. Comforting from a mental standpoint in knowing for certain that some drastic changes need to be made or we are the underdogs going forward.
Also, regarding the header pic, I see you Harry Miller! Wishing Harry all the success in the world as he moves on to the next chapter in his life.
Yea, the DB play was puzzling to say the least. Denzel Burks goes from potential ALL - America as a freshman to someone who had no business starting for the Buckeyes. That started game one against ND too. Secondary turned out to be a mess in the end.
Burke succeeded last year because his sheer athleticism enabled him to make plays in zone coverage. He went in to this year with almost no man to man skill (due to a lack of experience) and it showed in a man coverage heavy defensive system. I thought he got better in man coverage over the course of the season.
I stopped thinking about college football Saturday night and didn't give it or any NFL game any consideration yesterday. I read this article this morning and all my anger with Day, his stupid "feelings" and finesse philosophy, etc came back.
Strongly advise everyone to go watch Joel Klatt's take on this on YouTube. Michigan is now better than OSU because of the commitment they have made on the line of scrimmage, both sides of the ball, and being able to run on anyone and stop the run. OSU has better "athletes" but Michigan owns the trenches. For now.
OSU also has excellent "athletes" in the secondary, who mostly (aside from Cam Brown) can't cover man to man in a man scheme. And they were worse in zone against Maryland. That is really not Knowles' fault, that's more Coombs and Barnes and Day's fault.
OSU has to adjust and Day needs to forget about loyalty to younger players who mostly so far have shown minimal promise of being difference making players. He needs to hit the portal hard for interior linemen (losing 4 starters on the OL regardless) and DBs.
I have no issue with the passing attack, in fact I love it, but without a basis of a powerful, consistent, reliable ground game, you're gonna get stomped by teams with stout defenses, which is exactly what's happened the last two years.
LOL, All the answers right there folks!! How is this guy not coaching at a big time football powerhouse? I have not seen such insight especially after the game. Hit the portal take someone else's 3 star recruits!! Never thought of that. It' the fault of guys who left a little less than a year ago! Hell yes, I never thought of that! Brilliant!
After hearing and watching all the post game puke spewed by those clowns after the games makes a fan want to suit up hisself and hit somebody on the field.
I think there is plenty of blame to go around. This is team had more overall talent than any other team in the B1G. Yet, we struggle with teams we should easily handle (Maryland) and get throttled by really good teams. That’s a system/culture issue, not a talent issue - DB’s included.
There just doesn’t seem to be a “killer instinct” on this team. Everyone is nice. Everyone “takes responsibility”. When we get punched in the mouth, we just sort of either panic (Day) or do nothing (Knowles). We don’t punch back. Guys should get pissed off when they get punched in the mouth. We just sort of get scared and play tight.
Eichenberg seems to get it. He played like his hair was on fire, even out of position. A few others seem to get it.
The difference between lunging at a guy and making a tackle in space isn’t talent, it’s will. It’s focus. It’s mental toughness. Trying isn’t good enough. Make the F-ing tackle.
All the mental mistakes are also a lack of this mental toughness. How many games this season has D Jones jumped off sides? How many times have our Cornerbacks (Martinez) been beaten by poor technique?
Are there consequences for these mistakes? I guess not. They still trot out there every week and do the same boneheaded things.
This program needs a cultural shift to real accountability. Not just words.
Well said. Day's comfy couch approach sounded great, and the players seemed to respond nicely to it. Now its become apparent they're TOO comfortable. No one on Saturday was afraid to lose playing time because of missed assignments or stupid personal fouls. While getting your ass kicked and playing timid, you might as well bring in some of the young guys and let them play with their hair on fire. Its not like the veterans were doing any better at that point.
That’s what we recruit. Who cares about the kids family. Recruit the best kids, period. Not the trouble makers but the baddest dudes in the country. This nice guy culture we recruit to is what your seeing. This is the product we recruited. Seems it will continue in my opinion until this philosophy changes.
Devin Brown Senior Year Stats: Passing-254/372 (68%) for 4,881 yds, 57 TD's; Rushing-451 yds/8 TD's. I don't know how tough Utah High School FB is but I can watch game film. Definitely zero fear of running the ball. Tired of watching CJ hand the ball off, instead of pulling it and running around end, with nothing but green.
Stock Down: Jim Knowles......he wasn't hired for his defense to beat Indiana or Rutgers. He was supposed to be the missing piece to a team poised to win a NC. What we saw on Saturday was a Michigan team that ran or passed at will, especially in the 2nd half, and that falls on him. As much criticism as Kerry Coombs got last year as DC vs. UM, Knowles didn't do any better.
Losing to Michigan is going to happen from time to time, but getting blown out on your home field giving up 45 points is absolutely unacceptable.
Knowles has another year in my opinion to show that he can gameplan vs. Michigan, Penn State, and the other big games on our schedule to come up with a defense that can at least give the Buckeyes a chance to win and not have the offense trying to outscore the other team. If something doesn't change, it doesn't take a football genius to figure out that Michigan will win The Game again in 2023.
Stock Up: Michigan........better prepared, better coaching, and better team.
DeepSouthBuck: Totally agree......I would love to see the next Buckeye QB that is at least a threat to run. A QB that doesn't use his legs is a QB that is much easier to defend.
Go back and look at big Buckeyes wins over ttun - not the ones where we had a dozen better players all across the field. SOMEONE has to play the best game they ever played - sometimes more than one someone. Nobody did that on Saturday. Nobody.
Go back and look at the stats for Coach Cooper when we had great teams losing against ttun - nobody played their best game ever.
That's what it takes and nobody did that on Saturday.
The game was lost on the defensive side, not the offense. One thing that makes Knowles' defense good is it keeps the offense guessing. I do not recall there being much deception Saturday. The Bucks played Cover 0 or Cover 1 the entire game, and I did not see them switch into zone at the snap. I could be wrong, but I did not see the cleverness of previous games on display in this one. Our CB's which were a liability all season, we should have schemed in some manner so as to not be so exposed.
On defense - why stay in the same coverage all game long? I thought we were mixing and confusing and changing looks right before the snap and all that shit, then we show the same look for literally the entire game. Forcing an errant throw might not be a sack but it works too, and what's the point of pressure and errant throws when the DBs have no idea where the ball is? That's the coaching fail for me - no disguising coverages, nobody looking for a pick. We've heard all season how the defense wants to dictate not react, and all they did was react - and poorly at that.
Offense is harder to judge because every pass play has 3-5 options, and the bottom line for me is that CJ still is not very good at figuring out who to throw to. He left multiple TDs on the field by just targeting the wrong guy. And we ran the ball plenty in the second half, we're always going to be a pass-first team, but CJ has to make those money throws instead of checking down every time because he sees two deep safeties. He just could not put the ball up for his guys to make a play. I would like to see us run more between the tackles especially against a zone defense, but CJ's made many incorrect reads this season, and that's when the offense stalls. I trust that Ryan Day knows how to beat quarters coverage, but he needs a QB to do it and CJ just hasn't gotten there consistently.
Also "Stock Down", Gee Scott, Jr. Keep your helmet away from opponent's heads for the foreseeable, son. You don't play Defense, and even if you did there was still no excuse for that BS.
The buckeyes didn't have the talent in the back end of the defense to play the way they did. Not only have they lost players that transfered but they had numerous misses on the recruiting trail. They lacked the physicality to jam WRs and just were not good enough. I've been saying this since day 1. And face it, knowes got outcoached. He should have known he didn't have the talent back there and avoided putting them out there on an island.
The other side of Knowles is that he had a top 10 ranked defense all season. It you dissect the numbers from the game, Knowles’ game plan worked very well in the first half. They held the nation’s top rushing offense to just 10 rushing yards. The two TDs were busted plays by the DBs. Ohio State’s offense failed to score the points needed to keep Michigan one dimensional. What happened on Saturday is 100% on Day. Yes, the wheels came off the defense in the second half, but unlike last year, Ohio State should have scored points on every drive. You can’t let a team like Michigan stay within three points give how well the defense was playing and the offense came out smoking. After the opening drive TD, Day started calling plays that haven’t worked all season and weren’t called in the initial TD.
Playig against challenged offenses does not make you top ten. We played one good offensive team in Maryland. And they tore us up. We made Michigan into top offensive team. And the DBs have been horrible when tested. The play that changed the game was the missed tackle. Busted plays by the DBs! Yeah! The bucks didn't adjust when Michigan started throwing the ball. Yes, day and another horrible day calling plays. I agree plays were called that didn't work. 3 points in the second half is pathetic. I hope day fires himself next year as the lead play caller. Enough blame to go all around. We have the talent all over on the side offensive side, we we don't on the defensive side.
I realize this may not be a very popular opinion and maybe it's just the disappointment talking but I honestly think Day is a Big 12 coach who hired a Big 12 D coordinator. Which is fine as long as you're playing Indiana. However. In the BIG you're going to have to play in weather and you're going to face smash mouth teams eventually. My beloved Buckeyes just don't seem cut out for that.
The Officiating these days coddles Quarterbacks. You cannot really hit the quarterback, seemingly, without getting a roughing the passer or unnecessary roughness call. The old days of giving the QB a good POP are over. Sheeszh, you touch Brady and they call a penalty!!!
Plus, just about every quarterback these days runs from traffic or for a gain and then SLIDES to avoid getting hit. This is how the game is today! EVERYBODY does this.
Given this, it is INSANITY that Coach Day did not recognize this and EXPLOIT it
INSTEAD he says he is afraid of his fragile QB taking a hit. They didn’t even TRY! If he tried to run and got hit sliding, a penalty would most likely have been called adding to the gain. Isn’t that PLAYING Football? Take advantage of what you are given.
What a waste of talent and playing the game how it is Officiated these days.
It’s a dead conclusion, Stroud can run, he just doesn’t want to. I’ll give Knowles a pass, because Day is supposed to put up points, and let the D rest. The Buckeyes can light up Akron, Iowa, etc, but when we play someone with decent talent we can’t run. From here on out idc about how many receivers we get in recruiting. That shit didn’t help us one bit this year against quality opponents. Shit MHJ is already ready learning from his dad.
It doesn’t make sense always being in the top three in recruiting but we don’t do shit with it
Always trying to be positive! We have an elite group coming back next year. With that said, no team can win with a QB that doesn't run. CJ is probably one of the most accurate throwers I have ever seen, but if if you can't run , you will not win.
Maybe corum being out was the best thing to happen to scum. Would those gift touchdowns have happened if they just ran the ball? Against msu scum had to kick field goal after field goal. Maybe we would have scratched out a 27-24 win. Our secondary was handing out Xmas present tds like freaking Santa Claus.
Any team would have scored on those db mistakes by us. Akron, Indiana, rutgers, wouldn’t have mattered. Anyone could have made those throws and anyone could have caught them. Just a horrible performance.
Thing that sucks is that if the DBs had just gotten a decent amount better as the year went on then even if the Buckeyes lose on Saturday it's far more respectable... I get that it's a young group and depth was a concern because of transfers... But c'mon man... how could the secondary still be this bad?
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
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If I have to watch the defensive backs next year flailing their arms trying to blindly knock a ball away instead of turning their heads to find the ball I am going to lose it. I am trying to think, did a cornerback have a single interception this year? Knowles was overhyped because the big ten is generally bad on offense and they just had better athletes. Come down to teams that can play on offense, they looked bad.
I hear Jim Leonhard is available...
GO BUCKEYES!
1-2 sucks!
Hey, Coach Day, learn from the MASTER, Jimmy Hairball---take a pay cut. Maybe that will light a fire, where THE GAME has importance again. Worked for the maize and blue, right?
JI row end 78
I was wondering when the turning of the heads would come up, Dude Get a clue!! this is one of the stupidest posts you have ever made!! haha IMHO you already lost it!
you're getting 'ratioed', bro.
Get help, Bob.
JTatumCCS
We have become Oregon. Lots of flash but gets their ass kicked in big games.
I don't always finish my sentences but when I do
Is the Rose Bowl not considered a big game? Or Penn State on the road? I’m disappointed and pissed too but we still win big games, just not all of them.
Puzzling play calling and Stroud's refusal to run the ball has hamstrung this offense against top tier opponents. Three points in the second half. No idea what to say about the defense other than need better corner and tackle play.
It'll be interesting to see how the offense rebuilds with questionable depth at tackle and a new quarterback.
The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick
On known running plays, we'd be 100% better off if we ran the wildcat with xavier johnson. at least the defense would have to be kept a little honest knowing XJ might keep it. With CJ... lol.
Wondered the same thing myself.. Day is supposed to be an offensive genius, but can't come up with any short yardage packages out of the wildcat? Third and short its almost always a quick slant or screen pass, and fourth and short... well, we all saw it.. take the FG or punt in plus territory. Ridiculous.
If Day doesn't give up play calling I will lose it for sure.
OSUAlumInAZ
Could you imagine if USC or TCU blow it this weekend and OSU plays GA. Their D will kill Stroud bc they know he won't run. He'd be like a sitting duck for them to tee off on. Similar to this last Saturday. Or he'll inexplicably throw up a hope and a prayer with 5 to 10 yards of open green in front of him. It drives me as nuts as the PI calls bc our dbs play like they're still in Pop Warner. It's sad that ttun's coaches are killing OSU's by being intense and way smarter. It's sad...
As Bob Dylan once said, The Times They Are a Changing....
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Woody Hayes
Stock Up: CJ is soft and refuses to take what the defense gives him.
I’ve been saying it all year. CJ is not a dawg. He refuses to run when it is given, and is soft. I’ve been down voted a lot for saying as much, yet lo, it is what it is.
we need a dawg at QB, but hey, he has great stats!
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
CJ Stroud could have gone down as an all-time great here, but he'll go down as a bad memory of what could have been. The stats are great, but he never beat TTUN and he never won anything that mattered (the Rosebowl was a consolation prize let's be honest). I wouldn't even put him in the top 5 of Ohio State QBs at this point, but that could be the bitterness talking.
Stroud arguably throws (or threw) the prettiest football pass of anyone I have watched in college football in over 50 years. So did Art Schlichter and what did that get him? No. Stroud will not go down as one of Ohio States' greatest QBs even though statistics will tell another story. I will always think of him as a great kid, not a great leader. And lastly, if he thinks OSU fans are unforgiving, his eyes will get really wide opened when he gets to the NFL. I actually sorry for him, putting his anticipated $$ earnings aside.
“ I will always think of him as a great kid, not a great leader.”
This! As a passer, not really anyone can compare with Stroud (except maybe Haskins RIP). And I want to be careful here because I’m not a 21-22 year old young man trying to please 100+ fans, but Strouds body language after incompletions—throwing hands up in the air, slumped shoulders, look of frustration—is telling. Attitude on the field reflects leadership on the field.
I’m a mini van driver in a mega fun world
Stroud is a 7 on 7 QB who will not make it in the NFL. Glad he’s gone now, threw a great ball, but I legitimately think he’s afraid to get hit despite his size.
Give me Troy, JT, Braxton, Cardale, Guiton, Fields, Haskins, Krenzel, Pryor, and Germaine over Stroud.
I'd take him over Bauserman, Zwick and Boeckman, so there's that.
Will be interesting to see if Day incorporates zone reads back into the offense with McCord, and/or if McCord looks absolutely terrified of absorbing contact.
I hate to sound bitter, but I truly was never on Team CJ...if he had beaten UM once, I'd be eating crow and singing a different tune. But here we are. Everything sucks right now.
“Success is the inner satisfaction and peace of mind that come from knowing I did the best I was capable of doing for the group” - Coach Tressel
Feel your pain, dude. I WAS on team CJ from the beginning but I don't think I disagree with a single thing you said here.
FYI: Boeckman won a Big 10 title and led the Buckeyes to the National Championship game. Most of all he beat Michigan.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
Not to kick a dog when they are down, but he never won a meaningful game (don't count the Rose Bowl as that didn't have the pressure like regular season.
Oregon was his first test. He didn't pass. Michigan was his second. Yea he threw for a lot of yards, but still a loss.
Great kid. Great stats. But always seemed to lack the "it" factor you see in Caleb Williams, Bryce Young, etc.
He has a top 5 arm and last place heart due to absolute refusal to run when necessary. Game on the line some quarterbacks would die to pick up one first down. Stroud won’t even take a hit! Not his fault because he did throw passes that were nice and dropped but run it for the first and don’t even have to consider a drop! I’ll
Because I couldn't go for three
Harbaugh and his staff absolutely deserve credit for their game plan (and their second consecutive victory in The Game). Harbaugh’s overall record in The Game though is still a miserable 2-5—something no coach would ever aspire to.
Nice jab at Harbaugh 47!
OSUchoochoo! Get on the buckeye train
He's doing two things right now, he's recruiting and developing great players in the trenches, and recruiting mobile quarterbacks.
OSUAlumInAZ
……and playing against a HORRIBLE OSU ‘defense’.
Sadly I think they have a better shot of winning again next year, from what they did this year. Go from 0-5 to 3-5 in three years ain't bad. They start recruiting better because of their success against us, and we have turnover in the coaching staffs, and then they'll really get rolling. Sad.
They hate us cuz they aint us!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'll push back on that. They lose a bunch of lineman on both sides of the ball-- and for the first time in a while, they might actually have a bunch of underclassmen declare for the NFL draft. We *should* be absolutely loaded next season-- especially if we hit the portal for a couple depth pieces.
In a roundabout way, TTUN and Harbaugh were the biggest beneficiaries of the Covid season. Yes, they went 2-4, but avoided getting demolished at the Shoe and the extra year of eligibility gave them more time to develop less talented players and allowed them to play with a very experienced, grown man roster the last 2 years.
And I'll push back on that. McCord/Brown are unknown quantities. We literally haven't seen them throw passes in games. Miyan Williams may go pro, and we'll have a lot oft-injured players or limited experience in that RB room. Johnson and Jones go pro on the OL. We going to magically get better there? McCallister graduates, Hickman already declared. The CBs suck. We're in trouble next year.
They hate us cuz they aint us!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
McCord started a game as true freshman and looked better than Stroud had to that point. It’s his 3rd year in the program so a big drop off at QB isn’t happening. I would bet we upgrade there tbh.
We’re loaded at RB… Hayden, Henderson, Pryor, Chip… and incoming freshman. Zero concern there even if Miyan declares.
Fryar will start at one OT. We might not be as good in pass pro but should be better run blocking.
The CB room needs to get WAY better. That is true. But Sonny should be an absolute stud on the back end to go with Ransom and whomever wins the 3rd safety spot. I gotta believe Eichneberg and Chambers will be back to be possibly the best duo of LB in the country. The DL should be good. Just need growth in year 2 of Knowles system.
Bottom line is we will have a talent advantage next year. Up to our coaches and team leadership not to screw it up again.
They lost Hutchinson and Ojabo and we still couldn’t score. The fact is since Justin Fields left we have trouble scoring more than around 25 points against good competition. I don’t really think it matters who they lose at this point right now Day needs to do some major soul searching about his play calling and how the program is being run overall.
Meechy knows how to use the tranny portal too.
JTatumCCS
I'm not as down on Knowle's as most people ( I guess). He knows how to Coach, we brought him in to run his system, but he had to do that with Coombs players. It was always going to be a work in progress, that should bare fruit a few seasons down the line as they recruited to that system,.
We saw problems all the way back to the Notre Dame, and too many people said "corners will be fine".... the failing to me, after we hired Knowles, is why on earth didn't we go the portal route to find some corners that match his system? it just messes everything up. Every level takes a hit because they have to help our corners out..
None of our corners would start at Bama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Penn State... etc... etc.... for decades that was never the case.. I'm not even sure they would start for most B10 teams..
Go Bucks!!
agree 100%. could see issues with the secondary all season and it really showed when we played anyone who could throw the ball. this was Knowles first year, if it does not improve next year i could see us parting ways. definitely needs to hit the transfer portal even if it means processing some current players out. that play on the field saturday was unacceptable.
Big B
Agree with you and Tcm about Knowles. He inherited this DB room (all of it) and the coaches brought in to coach it. We will see and judge him by what transpires in the off season (I expect x-fers out and in) and next year. He owns the mistake of calling 0 coverage blitz that TTUN scored its first TD on. He left his DB on an island, but sometimes those kids need to make plays. If JJ gets sacked on that play, it would have been a brilliant, aggressive call that may have changed the entire game. Alas, we (and Knowles) got burned. Gotta own the results too, but I won't grab a pitchfork regarding him....at least not for now.
In my opinion, Knowles called a good game. Cam makes the EASY tackle the game doesn’t go off the rails. Martinez doesn’t turn his back on the ONE assignment he has as the deep coverage safety this game is 20-10 at half.
At some point you have to trust your players. You can’t play for them.
I will suggest that RD not running Chip more was a problem,. He had great success. You want to show you’re tough, run him down their throats. Guess what? It then opens up the passing game. Don’t so cute.
Day is a great coach. Knowles is a great coach. We are in good hands.
One last thing: we can get tsun again this year. If both SC and TCU lose we go to 3 and get them first round. If only one loses we might get them in the title game.
I can’t wait.
I said the same thing earlier about Knowles. Not many are talking about the defense holding Michigan, arguably the top rushing offense in the nation, to just 10 rushing yards in the first half. The two Michigan TDs were on busted plays that the DBs failed to stay with the receiver. The game was lost immediately after the opening drive when Day started calling the bubble screens and horizontal plays that haven’t worked all season. Like always, he was going to make these plays work and show everyone. If Day just sticks to the opening drive plays, the game is likely over at the half.
Shatinkycat1
Our DBs are the gift that keeps on giving.. I'd be willing to bet he called those stupid ass bubble screens all season because they worked every time in practice against our DBs..
Go Bucks!!!
You do realize Corum the Heisman candidate didn’t play and Edwards played with a broken hand? And Edwards still crushed us. Can you imagine how many yards they could have had together or the score?
For some reason Day didn’t want Ricks who ended up at Bama.
Ricks has 7 tackles and 4 passes defended this year. Yeah, that would have been a great addition.
VA_Buck
I was just gonna say this. Ricks played against LSU a few weeks ago and the Bama fans wondered why he was even on the field. He was bad
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Great post. This is more about player identification, recruitment, and development. Im not sure about Walton, but he didn't recruit most of these guys.
OSUAlumInAZ
Yep, that BIA is no longer valid to our corners or their coaches. It's now just an acronym for BS.
Without winners there wouldn't be any gosh darn civilization. We make no apologies for winning or for aiming our entire program toward that goal. - Woody Hayes
Knowles has NINE four start or better defense backs on the roster to work with and develop/coach/whatever this year.
N I N E of them.
So stop saying he had to ‘do that with Coombs players’ like they were all walk-on, that’s total BS.
He has talent to work with, he f’d it up with his gimmicky philosophy.
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.
How many DPI’s can a team get to extend scUM drives by not using proper technique? Just watch OSU DBs this past weekend and you’ll see what not to do when trying to make a play on the ball. Coombs’ imprint is still stuck in these players’ minds. That has to be erased next season. How many times can a QB get bailed out on a third and long, when our defensive front and LBers make plays on 1st and second down only to see that hard work erased by stupid DB play? Bailing out McCarthy is exactly what they did time and time again.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
The pass interference calls were made because the safeties were burnt and out of position. They were trying to make up ground and hell Hickman turns his head on the second pass interference call and he intercepts the pass, it hit him in the back. Turn your head around and make a play on the ball and either play is pass interference. Getting beat with a player behind the defense with 3 safeties on the field is just insane to me. Should change our safeties names to liabilities. That’s what they are.
Because I couldn't go for three
I think it's a shame for CJ's Heisman hopes to "crash" after clashing with the #3 team, #1 defense, hated rival TTUN. I cannot express how much more difficult running through a season in the B1G as OSU's QB1 is than whatever path Caleb Williams went through. The PAC12 is lily white soft, and I'd argue a WORSE conference than the AAU has been over the last decade. Clearly the worst of the P5 conferences, only slightly better than the shitpiles of the ACC and B12. But whatever. We'll see how the voters vote, but clearly CJ Stroud has had a much tougher row to hoe in two years as a starter. Couple that with his (Williams') "stabbing in the back" of the Sooner program, well, we know who the better man is, hardware or not. "Recency bias" I think they call it. Where were the Williams backers when they lost to Utah? That's right.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
You are delusional. Pac 12 was consistently deeper that’s the Big all season. Not even close.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
How am I "delusional?" The P12 is breaking up FFS!!! USC and UCLA are now "B1G 10" teams for all intents and purposes. Conferences that are not shitshows do NOT break up. Same with the B12. Oklahoma and Texas are SEC teams now. Where am I losing you? The P12 hasn't been good since Pete Carroll left USC 20 years ago. The flash in the pan that is Oregon (and now USC) is an aberration and the death rattle of a conference that is about to go kaput. So they have a bunch of ranked teams right now. Big deal. On balance, they've been uber weak in bowl games and overall OOC head to head. Again, USC AND UCLA ARE LEAVING. lmfao. I guess we'll have to wait and see in the bowl games. Point stands. now, where's my lithium?!
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
I didn’t read past “pac 12 is breaking up” because that has zero to do with conference assessment this year. You are out of your element Donnie.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
cant agree with you on this. we would (will) get smoked by washington, oregon, usc for sure. probably by oregon state. pac12 is just as talented and maybe even deeper than the BIG this year.
Big B
You must harbor some really deep hate for the PAC 12. Can't blame you. If you are an "old timer" like me, there are a lot of scars. USC. UCLA....both cost us multiple national championships.
But when you look at both conferences top to bottom, the comparison is not even close. The Big Ten was a joke this year. Let's not cater to revisionist history here, please. And that "lily white soft" PAC 12 banner carrier last year put up 40 points on us in the Rose Bowl. Oregon beat us in our own house. C,mon, oldtowne.
JJ McCarthy’s stock is up? I guess so with the W, but dammit, Malik Hooker could have renewed his plates at the DMV and still been able to intercept his floating, underthrown balls. Secondary was garbage and hasn’t improved in a few years. Knowles deserves criticism for trusting them so much. They lost us the game more than anything else.
Alcohol will not solve any of your problems, but then again, neither will milk or water.
Let's not forget about Tim Walton and Perry Eliano. What a bust all three of them are.
Hire Fickell!!!
A day too late, Powell
JI row end 78
Agree somewhat Chark. McCarthy kept throwing up arm punts and our DB's were so bad they weren't even with 10 yards of the receiver. Why do they think he had trouble all year long completing passes - especially long ones? The db's were at least in the neighborhood. Agree that Knowles deserves criticism for not adjusting in game.
However, our offense deserves the lionshare of the credit for the loss. We should have EASILY been up 28 or 35 to 10 at halftime and the game is over. We let them hang around with stupid penalties and mistakes and bad play calling. If we don't go to the portal and bring in several decent db's, I will scream. We also need some NASTY Oline and Dline recruits. For Day, it's time to stop worrying about hurt feelings and worry about job security and winning the only damn game that really matters.
I feel bad for the kids who played their hearts out and were let down by team mates for poor performances or in the coaches who recruited and trained players who were not good enough to start at OSU.
Two years in a row now - complete failure to achieve any team goals.
The reason I feel our poor secondary lost us the game is because any competent (or even halfway-competent) CB/DB/S should have turned those into interceptions instead of big completions. We have the ball, they don't score. It also allowed McCarthy to build some confidence. Did you notice how tight Michigan's coverage was on our receivers? Yes, there were a few drops of well-thrown balls from Stroud, but a fair amount of them were incompletions because the coverage men made excellent plays. The rest of the defense was more than adequate (30% better, at least...)
Yes, the bad penalties (holding, false start, etc.) didn't help, nor did the STUPID penalties by Stover or Scott Jr., but those by themselves didn't lose the game for us.
Yes, the boneheaded play calling hurt us. Bubble screens and RB pitches to the outside didn't work, same as it's been all season. I'd be surprised if Hayden stays since we somehow thought the 5th? string LB/RB was a better option. (Not to take anything away from Trayanum's solid performance)
I still think Stroud is the best passer OSU has ever had, but you never saw him fired up or willing to give everything to come out with a win. There were more than a few times with 10-20 yards of wide-open turf in front of him and he chose not to run. Definitely lacking in leadership compared to others we've had with less arm talent. In the end though, he will be remembered as not reaching his goals.
I'm most interested to see how Day plans to fix this.
Alcohol will not solve any of your problems, but then again, neither will milk or water.
McCarthy didn't do anything special. He just didn't make mistakes.
That's special enough, apparently.
Yeah, but it worked.
OSUAlumInAZ
There seems to be a senterment that it was Knowles fault for not winning the game. I'm not sure that's fair. I think Day made several tactical mistakes, particularly not going for it on 4th down and short or from near midfield. And, there were some key plays that UM made so I think you have to put some of that execution or lack thereof on the players. I also think Knowles did what he could. The blueprint for beating UM was stopping the run and hoping McCarthy couldn't beat you. So , he loaded the box and dared McCarthy to beat him deep. After McCarthy hit a few deep balls Knowles the moved the safeties back and UM found success on the ground. Despite the recruiting rankings, it turns out OSU did not have enough talent to shut down both the deep balls & the ground game. They had to pick their poison and I don't think that's Knowles fault. That's probably more of a roster issue, or possibly an injury issue to the DBs if that's the case. I also don't think OSU sees this kind of offense all year and probably don't have the ability to duplicate it in practice. UM is not fairly unique in that they have this style of play with enough talent to impose it. Teams like Wiscy or Illinois may also, but don't have the talent.
Kuddos to giving credit where it's due. JH got his fair share of crap and most of it was deservedly so after blowouts in 2018 & 2019 and the abysmal 2020 season. I didn't expect 11W to give him his due credit for turning things around. In retrospect Brown was great at defending Meyer's offense and not very good at Day's offense. It makes you wonder how 2018 & 2019 would have turned out with a different defensive coordinator at UM. It turns out the coordinators make a big difference.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I'm with you in that I put the blame on Day, not Knowles. I said in another post that the game should have been 27 or 34-10 at half had Day not gone about play calling as though he has wet his pants and had another gallon to go. They go in at half up by that score, the run game is not an option for Michigan and Knowles can focus entirely on preventing the pass.
But the pressure of the moment got to Day. Add in the fact that his playcalling has been shit for three years now and it's quite easy to understand the "they wilt against teams with a pulse" commentary.
Offense didn't give up 45 points or score 46 so the blame is rightly shared between both.
Defense cant give up 45 points.
Offense cant be held to 23 points.
Failure on both sides of the ball.
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.
But again, there's been a lot of talk this year about complimentary football. That means both sides helping each other out. Had the offense scored what it was supposed to in the first half (e.g. 27 to 34), well that eliminates the need to worry about the run for the defense. Asking any defense to stand up to power run for four quarters is a tough ask against an average team. SO, had the offense done what they were supposed to, the defense doesn't buckle in the second half. Ergo, all on Ryan and his cowardly playcalling for failing the defense.
Why do you spend so much time on this site?
Love couch potato coaches
Maybe he likes the back and forth without being a prick about it. He said nothing in his post that I (for one) disagreed with. He could have flamed his post to say what is now obvious after 2 consecutive brow beatings at the hands of Michigan: that it is time to bury the idea that we have a huge talent advantage over them. I think the evidence to kill that notion has now been made clear (when you exclude our WRs).
One, I hate posting on MGB and the other UM sites, although I do enjoy reading the main page content at MGB. Two, I tend to be a bit contrarian which means I don't like to do what everyone else does. Three, I'm generally curious about the thinking of rivals. And four, I find outside of our rooting interests I have more in common with OSU fans on average than UM fans.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Point MaineStrength
I don't always finish my sentences but when I do
Comment removed for violating the site's commenting policy.
JTatumCCS
Just like our football team we have gotten soft on our own message boards. Get rid of this guy as he is having to much fun at our expense.
Love couch potato coaches
Idk, Knowles deserves his share of blame. Illinois gave us a blueprint the week before, but we never once tried that look on D.
This goes back to what we have seen all season. Other teams see what works against us and incorporate it into their game plan (see TTUN running NW styles defense all game). While the Bucks line up the same way as always and seem to say “It will work this time”. But as talent gaps shrink, our standard sets work less and less….odd how that works.
Can't duplicate scUM's offense leads to misjudgement on how good/bad your DTs are against the run and the necessity of recruiting some(not just one) HS DTS that are SEC/NFL type DTs that forces the DC to commit secondary to be weak in pass coverage. We have a new DC that is comfortable and experienced VS. a non-rungame offense. Our recruiting philosophy has to change upfront. Sure you need DEs but same emphasis should be on the right kind of DTs..it is NOT now and if that doesn't change immediately we can look to the same ass kicking up front as the 2nd half and last year's games against scUM and Oregon. Harbaugh, sadly had it right.
I don't necessarily think that's the case. I'd guess OSU just doesn't rep all the run game looks UM will give them and don't have the run blockers that UM has. OSU seems to have a bunch of tackles playing guard. Generally your scout team is your freshman or 3rd string. It's hard to match Keegan, Olu, & Zinter with that when that was not what they were recruited to do.
I honestly don't see a DT recruiting issue. I do think OSU's DEs are finally coming back to earth. Just because they are a 5-star or top 100 type recruit does not mean they will turn into a Bosa bro or Chase Young. It's highly unlikely even a 5-star will produce the way those guys did and you had so many elite ones in such a short time frame that it probably gave you unrealistic expectations. They are fine, just not good enough to get organic pressure without blitzing consistently against good o-lines. Saying that, I think JTT will be very, very good next year. But, I think the recruiting issue is more with the DBs.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Born on third base. Khaki plagiarized the quote, but it fits. You cant expect a receiver to have a 350 yard day every time we face a good opponent. Bad news Michigan didnt get better. They were this good in 2018. OSU dropped a level and now on Penn State level. So now we are in a pickle and got ran back to second base. They looked like a team that quit. That is the culture. So how do you come back from that.
This is good analysis.
If you are objective, we are just another B1G team.
There's no "elite", anymore.
We've come back to the pack.
Maybe Alabama and Clemson have, too. We'll see.
WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?
I was at the game and it definitely appeared that the players quit toward the end of the third quarter.
BernardBuckeye
I quit (watching) after it became 31-20.
JI row end 78
I should have quit watching after Marvelous Marv dropped a wide open pass in the first half. Pretty much all down hill after that.
JI row end 78
We must recruit the best kids in America instead of the best kids with the best families. It’s about the kid not the family. They can have a family at Ohio State if there home life isn’t that good. Doesn’t mean take felons but it’s about the player! Go get the baddest dudes in America instead of soft kids who’ve not fought for anything in life. Spoiled kids cry when the bully punches them in the mouth and their parents call the principal. We need the kid who fights back and beats the bully down! Problem solved.
Because I couldn't go for three
Stock up: Eleven Warriors articles and commentary about the game. Honest about our performance, realistic about what this means to them personally and relatable to what it means to us as fans. I appreciate the collective professionalism, while enduring the pain of a fan.
Stock up: Eleven Warriors commenters.. Most of the comments seem very thoughtful, honest, pragmatic in the face of a painful experience. This is THE GAME that matters most...everything hinges on it. Beating Michigan, winning the big10 and being in the CFP all flushed down the toilet.
RAS1000
Agree! Wait until Ramzy writes about it on Wednesday. I am expecting bile and smoke to be coming out of my computer monitor.
Stroud is such a good guy. I hate to see him go out like that, not just for us as fans, but for him. He is right though, he will be remembered as the QB who couldn't beat Michigan.
Knowles strengthened the front 7, but the secondary failed terribly. I know there is some serious talent back there, so that is not the issue. It 100% falls back on coaching. They need to review this years games to see what they did wrong, and correct it. If they can't do it, they need to step aside or get replaced. There is no excuse for the secondary to be that bad at OSU.
I can excuse both of Edwards TD's, those were garbage TD's where OSU was selling out to the middle in desperation. The front 7 is not the problem. It was the secondary that failed them saturday, and every game where the QB was not afraid to throw the ball. That's all on the coaches.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
I agreed with your post, stant....but I am not sure about the DB talent assumption you are making - at least in absolute form. I do agree that the handshake exchange that sent Coombs to UC in return for one of our coaches looks like a loser for us. One thing is for sure: Knowles and his entire D staff are likely on a 1 year contract going forward and I would not be surprised (and certainly proven wrong) if there are personnel changes in store for the off season - perhaps for coaches and players.
Stock Down:
Offensive that does not have a QB who can put pressure on a defense with his legs.
Defensive backs who are not coached well.
I could go on but these are glaring weaknesses.
First and goal at the five and Arch is getting the ball.
Coach Day has to instill the mental fortitude and "refuse to lose" attitude toward ttun as demonstrated by Urban and Tress. It seems the situational awareness and capacity for perspective in-game are being swamped on the sideline. For next season, as Coach Day did in bringing in Knowles to fix the defense, Coach Day would be well-served to give play calling duties to Wilson and to get a run-game coordinator. Running the ball should be table stakes at THE. Recruiting nasty guys in the trenches and players worthy of DBU has to be prioritized. If Coach Day does not attack these issues, he risks being a good coordinator/bad head coach label, which then has negative collateral effects. He has won 90% of his games with his current formula, but he has to make adaptations to ensure success in big-stage games. Go Bucks!!!
^^^1000% this ^^^
I'm not ready to kick Day to the curb but he needs to do exactly this, otherwise he should be kicked as far away from The Ohio State University as possible!
"Put ya' weight on it"
JJ McCarthy reminds me of Tom Brady beats you while smiling his ass off. RCD most certainly must of seen more in C.J. then I ever did. He's not what the NFL is looking for in a QB. Still don't believe he will ever start a game in the NFL. There's not a single pure cornerback in the Buckeye CB stable. Haven't recruited well at the position and the coaching has been very questionable for years. Might want to look to the portal to find a couple of hard hitting head-hunters. Also, team discipline is badly needed. Find a quarterback not afraid to run and who can take a hit. Can't have drive killing penalties and unnecessary interceptions on offense, DPI's on defense, and bush league personal fouls in the 12th week of a season and not expect it to have an impact on a GAME.
Try not to suck
Somebody will take a chance on him in the first round but his stock has gone down an awful lot this year. Really wonder how much of him not running is him vs Day's not wnting him to run. Haskins was always reluctant to tuck it and go as well - although Fields was a very willing runner, and Stroud is quicker than Haskins. Seems like early on in his time at OSU it was decided and/or he was coached to always try to keep looking downfield first when he moves, which is good at times but you have to be willing to scramble and run for yardage in today's game. Whichever NFL team drafts him will have to coach/force him to start doing so, or he will be a bust.
If Day isn't coaching him to take the 5-10 yards of green in front of him and slide, that is horrible, horrible coaching. I believe it was more Stroud hoping he could sit back and wait for a receiver to get open and hit a 30-40 yard bomb than it was being coached to not run at all. Problem is, that puts you behind schedule way more often than you'll hit that bomb.
As for the NFL, I just can't see him being successful. The whole damn team had quit by the fourth quarter... where was the Heisman candidate leader trying to get guys fired up? For that matter, where was the HC getting guys fired up?
If you have to tell the press and the fans that "I did everything I could, there was no stone left unturned" at a press conference when clearly their were many stones left unturned, you're not a true leader. You're a guy trying to convince yourself you were a leader. Those kinds of comments should be coming from coaches and fellow players, not from yourself.
Stock Down - the safety play on Saturday. I was having flashbacks of Shaw and Pryor.
Dallan Hayden tied Blake Corum for carries in the game. Two. Yipee!!!
For no reason. Kid has done very well no matter when the ball was given to him. Williams ran great all year but so has Dallan. He was snubbed in this game for no reason other than being a freshman in my opinion. Treyveyon has regressed big time. On his first Carrie’s he had a jump cut that made him seem like he’s the no. 1 RB recruit. Now he runs into defenders and goes down. He’s not a power back but a finesse pack. I get take the 1-2 extra yards by going forward but you have to juke sometimes and that’s his game. IDK. Too much to need fixed that does seem like the players are coached to do. Let the players be there own which is what we recruit them for and quit trying to make them what we want them to be. You want a power back, recruit one. Don’t recruit an electric back and try to make them a power back, won’t work. It seems we want the same team every year instead with different players instead of changing our philosophy based on personnel. WTF are we doing?
Because I couldn't go for three
Knowles may have been great at Oklahoma State but I am seriously questioning that decision right now. Yeah I get he had Coombs players but damn...Coombs didn't shit the bed this bad against Michigan's pass last year
did michigan even pass last year? they just brutalized us on the ground.
Big B
Good point...that legitimizes Knowles. Michigan had 297 rushing yards last year and Knowles was able to get that down to 242...basically all in the 2nd half. Michigan was 14/20 for 190 yds last year passing and 12/24 this for 263 passing this year...4 more throws.
IDK...I'm not an expert like everyone else on here but just a dumb observer.
Knowles is a bust. a tea-drinking bust. Ivy league? lofl. get that shite outta here.
No. But he did against Oregon. That aside.....I am sure he and Stud had some shit-eating grins on their faces as they fell asleep on Saturday night. Well...at least until Coombs found out his boss took another job.
Honestly, I'm not that down on Knowles. He called the defense he promised to call. It's not on him that Cam Brown missed a tackle, or that Cam Martinez bit on a double move, or that Lathan Ransom didn't cover the TE on the RB throw. He left those guys on an island,, which is exactly what he said his defense will do. They just all made mistakes. Day, on the other hand, was erratic (at best) in his play calling. If Trayanum is running the ball like a wild man, keep giving him the ball! Maybe Hayden should have had more than 2 carries. We were bullying them in the first half, and then spent the entire second half playing not to lose. Maybe Day needs to hand over play calling duties. A great leader recognizes his own shortcomings, and it appears that he can't be a HC and an OC at the same time.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I agree with your running the ball assessment, but I do put this Defensive breakdown on Knowles. We all knew we had poor corners and he puts them on an island with that scheme? Especially after Corum is out?
Also, these defensive players are 4 stars. Knowles had 12 games as well as preseason to teach and train them. He didn't period. These guys are as good athletically as Iowa or Wisky or Michigan or most other teams .Before the game 97.1 had clips of Doran Grant and other former defensive bucks saying they didn't even recognize what the cornerbacks were doing or being taught. That's a pretty spot on indictment.
I get it that they may still be suffering from Coombs poor involvement but that only goes for the first few games. After that its a lack of coaching. We saw the same thing with Chris Ash defense in 2014 suffering for the first couple games, including VA Tech, and then develop into a beast that year.
buckeyeinla
Thank you for this level headed thread and the thoughtful posts from commenters. This place has been unreadable most of the weekend.
Sorry, but McCarthy's "Stock Up" status is more smoke & mirrors than it is reality. As soon as Michigan enters the playoffs, assuming they do, he's going to be shown for the hack he really is. Be sure to give him the "royal wave" as they carry him out on a stretcher.
My take was the wave was a snark that they are sending us to the Rose Bowl, which has a Rose Queen who waves like that on a float in the parade.
IMHO, McCarthy is still a B+ quarterback, but improving enough that I'm excited for next year. The "stock up" is from the B or B- that people had him pegged at in the last few games.
Other strengths: (1) he's pretty well balanced in terms of throwing ability, running ability and judgment - not top of the charts on any of them yet, but pretty good at all of them and (2) he's got a ton of heart. He doesn't give up, he takes responsibility when a play is on him, and he doesn't get shaken by a cold streak.
I'd love it if he evolves into a Heisman candidate before he leaves Michigan, but for now, I'm happy with what we've got.
did you mean to post this on MGo?
LOL - I guess I end up here when I really want to talk football and there's nothing left to read on MGoBlog and /r/CFB. I appreciate you guys for having me. (And for what it's worth, I thought my opinions on JJ were worthwhile, but it looks like the board disagrees, which is fair enough.)
I don’t believe CJs comment of”this game doesn’t define us as a team” was directed at OSU fans. I believe it was a statement to the CFP committee, but unfortunately, the throngs of insanely emotional fans decided to make it into “he doesn’t care about this game because he’s from California “ as they search for coaches and players to blame for the loss.
I thnk the comments that he doesn't care about the game because he's from California are insulting. That kid lived and breathed OSU football for 2 straight years. You can't live in the 614 and not care about this game. He gave everything he had and I personally think he was over-coached into being scared to throw and to run. He had all the talent in the world and he regressed nearly every game this year. Maybe he didn't outwardly show fire, but I think he was a fierce competitor. His choice of words are unfortunate, and they will haunt him, but I think that is a kid being defensive in a tough spot.
I think the same about Day. I never thought he didn't care, or try hard enough. He definitely coached not to lose and he seems to lack the in game awareness needed to drive a Ferrari offense.
Don't eat the salad. They are trying to poison us.
Our CBs have played poorly all season long. Coach Day went out and hired a fantastic CB coach from Cincinnati, Eliano. What does he do? Day puts Eliano in the safeties room and brings in a coach from one of the worst teams in the NFL to coach CBs.
Put Eliano in the CB room next year and find someone else to coach the safeties.
Ryan Day and Jim Knowles. They are who we thought they were.
Farmer Gronk...... what a joke
More like Roberto Duran, hands of stone
My love for Ohio State, is only surpassed by mine hatred for _ichigan
I was sitting at a hotel bar Saturday night defending Stroud and a gentleman leaned over and said "Joe Germaine beat TTUN, won a B10 title and Rose Bowl that mattered and how many of his jerseys do you see around town?"
BernardBuckeye
Early in the season I would have said Stroud would easily be in the running for #1 overall pick in the draft. But at this point, I don't know why it's such a foregone conclusion that he's leaving for the NFL. While I still love the guy and think he'll be one of the best to ever play QB at OSU, I think he's shown that he has some real holes in his game that elite opponents are exposing. Personally, I think he'd be well served to stay another year, beat TTUN, win the Heisman, compete for the natty, and polish his game up before going to the NFL. That being said, I certainly won't fault him if he wants to leave. That's just the nature of the business these days.
I wish Stroud the best as well. But if he comes back, do you really think anything will change next year, gold? Sure...gaudy stats. Lots of TD passes to MHJr. Lots of missed opportunities to convert 3rd down because he won't run. No desire to step up in the pocket and make throws. Losses to good teams that have figured him -- and Day out. At least one of our QBs leaves. Then....what?
Totally agree with you. It only makes sense for him to come back if him and Day are committed to making changes and addressing those holes. Otherwise it would be a complete waste of time. I don't need to see another season where he puts up monster numbers, but we don't win the games that matter. But I would love to see him redeem himself.
Understood....fair points.
Plenty of folks up here in northern Ohio — where we have to put up with "Walmart Wolverines" because that crap is, literally sold at WallyWorld and people who couldn't even find their way to Ann Arbor with GPS actually buy it — think the better plan for Stroud and JSN is for them both to return. Stroud has eligibility left, of course, and JSN could petition NCAA right now for a medical redshirt for this year and it would be granted. He's played so little since the injury in Game 1 that there isn't an issue in getting the medical waiver for the year.
Then both would be more seasoned and likely have better numbers for the 2024 draft.
But neither is likely to do so. They'll pull the trigger for the draft because of the siren song of the $$$$$$. I agree with many comments on this thread that Stroud has a high probability of being a bust in the pro game if he goes to the draft this year.
K. Root, OSU Class of '76
who is this 'JSN' of whom you speak?
JTatumCCS
Stock down: The play book. No creativity and at time’s success it not achievable. There was never an answer when the opponent know what’s coming.
stock down: The DB’s. Not just Saturday. We’ve seen all season that the opponent recognizes the Buckeyes don’t look for the ball. Third and long, WR’s simply stop and come back to the ball to draw the PI.
LebBuckeye
I like Cam Brown as much as anyone, but it is a sad state of affairs when you're "contending" for a Natty and he's your best DB (by far). Also the inability to get to McCarthy despite sending 6-7 guys a lot was really disappointing, and compounded the problem. You don't get to the passer and leave mediocre DBs on an island, you make JJ McCarthy look like Dan Marino.
To me the #1 reason we lost was the DB play. If they are not up to snuff for the “Mad Scientist “ D then why put them in that position Play them back so the can break on the ball. We don’t break on the ball, it’s a clown show. That’s on Knowles. They were horrible.
Stroud is a very good QB, I’d take him over that JJ any day. He’s not a runner, doesn’t look good at it at all. I believe we should have come out with 2 RB in the backfield. Give them something they haven’t seen….I don’t get it
I'm still numb. But recognizing that last year was no fluke is not only eye-opening but somewhat comforting. Comforting from a mental standpoint in knowing for certain that some drastic changes need to be made or we are the underdogs going forward.
Also, regarding the header pic, I see you Harry Miller! Wishing Harry all the success in the world as he moves on to the next chapter in his life.
I love Harry!
OSUAlumInAZ
Yea, the DB play was puzzling to say the least. Denzel Burks goes from potential ALL - America as a freshman to someone who had no business starting for the Buckeyes. That started game one against ND too. Secondary turned out to be a mess in the end.
osubuck22
Burke succeeded last year because his sheer athleticism enabled him to make plays in zone coverage. He went in to this year with almost no man to man skill (due to a lack of experience) and it showed in a man coverage heavy defensive system. I thought he got better in man coverage over the course of the season.
I stopped thinking about college football Saturday night and didn't give it or any NFL game any consideration yesterday. I read this article this morning and all my anger with Day, his stupid "feelings" and finesse philosophy, etc came back.
OSUAlumInAZ
Strongly advise everyone to go watch Joel Klatt's take on this on YouTube. Michigan is now better than OSU because of the commitment they have made on the line of scrimmage, both sides of the ball, and being able to run on anyone and stop the run. OSU has better "athletes" but Michigan owns the trenches. For now.
OSU also has excellent "athletes" in the secondary, who mostly (aside from Cam Brown) can't cover man to man in a man scheme. And they were worse in zone against Maryland. That is really not Knowles' fault, that's more Coombs and Barnes and Day's fault.
OSU has to adjust and Day needs to forget about loyalty to younger players who mostly so far have shown minimal promise of being difference making players. He needs to hit the portal hard for interior linemen (losing 4 starters on the OL regardless) and DBs.
Truth.
Great athletes does not imply great football players either. Poor player development and recruiting.
OSUAlumInAZ
I have no issue with the passing attack, in fact I love it, but without a basis of a powerful, consistent, reliable ground game, you're gonna get stomped by teams with stout defenses, which is exactly what's happened the last two years.
Yes exactly this.
OSUAlumInAZ
LOL, All the answers right there folks!! How is this guy not coaching at a big time football powerhouse? I have not seen such insight especially after the game. Hit the portal take someone else's 3 star recruits!! Never thought of that. It' the fault of guys who left a little less than a year ago! Hell yes, I never thought of that! Brilliant!
After hearing and watching all the post game puke spewed by those clowns after the games makes a fan want to suit up hisself and hit somebody on the field.
Players? Had enough?
Gregory
I think there is plenty of blame to go around. This is team had more overall talent than any other team in the B1G. Yet, we struggle with teams we should easily handle (Maryland) and get throttled by really good teams. That’s a system/culture issue, not a talent issue - DB’s included.
There just doesn’t seem to be a “killer instinct” on this team. Everyone is nice. Everyone “takes responsibility”. When we get punched in the mouth, we just sort of either panic (Day) or do nothing (Knowles). We don’t punch back. Guys should get pissed off when they get punched in the mouth. We just sort of get scared and play tight.
Eichenberg seems to get it. He played like his hair was on fire, even out of position. A few others seem to get it.
The difference between lunging at a guy and making a tackle in space isn’t talent, it’s will. It’s focus. It’s mental toughness. Trying isn’t good enough. Make the F-ing tackle.
All the mental mistakes are also a lack of this mental toughness. How many games this season has D Jones jumped off sides? How many times have our Cornerbacks (Martinez) been beaten by poor technique?
Are there consequences for these mistakes? I guess not. They still trot out there every week and do the same boneheaded things.
This program needs a cultural shift to real accountability. Not just words.
OK, I feel better now. Whew.
BL
Agreed, I loved the balanced gentlemanly no mistakes smile as we kill you approach that I think Tress brought to the team /culture.
Well said. Day's comfy couch approach sounded great, and the players seemed to respond nicely to it. Now its become apparent they're TOO comfortable. No one on Saturday was afraid to lose playing time because of missed assignments or stupid personal fouls. While getting your ass kicked and playing timid, you might as well bring in some of the young guys and let them play with their hair on fire. Its not like the veterans were doing any better at that point.
That’s what we recruit. Who cares about the kids family. Recruit the best kids, period. Not the trouble makers but the baddest dudes in the country. This nice guy culture we recruit to is what your seeing. This is the product we recruited. Seems it will continue in my opinion until this philosophy changes.
Because I couldn't go for three
Devin Brown Senior Year Stats: Passing-254/372 (68%) for 4,881 yds, 57 TD's; Rushing-451 yds/8 TD's. I don't know how tough Utah High School FB is but I can watch game film. Definitely zero fear of running the ball. Tired of watching CJ hand the ball off, instead of pulling it and running around end, with nothing but green.
Oste
Stock Down: Jim Knowles......he wasn't hired for his defense to beat Indiana or Rutgers. He was supposed to be the missing piece to a team poised to win a NC. What we saw on Saturday was a Michigan team that ran or passed at will, especially in the 2nd half, and that falls on him. As much criticism as Kerry Coombs got last year as DC vs. UM, Knowles didn't do any better.
Losing to Michigan is going to happen from time to time, but getting blown out on your home field giving up 45 points is absolutely unacceptable.
Knowles has another year in my opinion to show that he can gameplan vs. Michigan, Penn State, and the other big games on our schedule to come up with a defense that can at least give the Buckeyes a chance to win and not have the offense trying to outscore the other team. If something doesn't change, it doesn't take a football genius to figure out that Michigan will win The Game again in 2023.
Stock Up: Michigan........better prepared, better coaching, and better team.
DeepSouthBuck: Totally agree......I would love to see the next Buckeye QB that is at least a threat to run. A QB that doesn't use his legs is a QB that is much easier to defend.
Go back and look at big Buckeyes wins over ttun - not the ones where we had a dozen better players all across the field. SOMEONE has to play the best game they ever played - sometimes more than one someone. Nobody did that on Saturday. Nobody.
Go back and look at the stats for Coach Cooper when we had great teams losing against ttun - nobody played their best game ever.
That's what it takes and nobody did that on Saturday.
Michael
It is really startling how many opportunities there were to make a big play...and it just didn't happen. Wasted opportunities everywhere.
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
The game was lost on the defensive side, not the offense. One thing that makes Knowles' defense good is it keeps the offense guessing. I do not recall there being much deception Saturday. The Bucks played Cover 0 or Cover 1 the entire game, and I did not see them switch into zone at the snap. I could be wrong, but I did not see the cleverness of previous games on display in this one. Our CB's which were a liability all season, we should have schemed in some manner so as to not be so exposed.
23 points is NOT enough points to sore for a team with 7 starters on Offense who will be drafted (and I'm including Henderson as he didn't play).
Enough blame to go arround on both sides of the ball.
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.
On defense - why stay in the same coverage all game long? I thought we were mixing and confusing and changing looks right before the snap and all that shit, then we show the same look for literally the entire game. Forcing an errant throw might not be a sack but it works too, and what's the point of pressure and errant throws when the DBs have no idea where the ball is? That's the coaching fail for me - no disguising coverages, nobody looking for a pick. We've heard all season how the defense wants to dictate not react, and all they did was react - and poorly at that.
Offense is harder to judge because every pass play has 3-5 options, and the bottom line for me is that CJ still is not very good at figuring out who to throw to. He left multiple TDs on the field by just targeting the wrong guy. And we ran the ball plenty in the second half, we're always going to be a pass-first team, but CJ has to make those money throws instead of checking down every time because he sees two deep safeties. He just could not put the ball up for his guys to make a play. I would like to see us run more between the tackles especially against a zone defense, but CJ's made many incorrect reads this season, and that's when the offense stalls. I trust that Ryan Day knows how to beat quarters coverage, but he needs a QB to do it and CJ just hasn't gotten there consistently.
Also "Stock Down", Gee Scott, Jr. Keep your helmet away from opponent's heads for the foreseeable, son. You don't play Defense, and even if you did there was still no excuse for that BS.
I think he's going to be in the group that enters the transfer portal.....
Stock up: Basketbucks.
muck fichigan
The buckeyes didn't have the talent in the back end of the defense to play the way they did. Not only have they lost players that transfered but they had numerous misses on the recruiting trail. They lacked the physicality to jam WRs and just were not good enough. I've been saying this since day 1. And face it, knowes got outcoached. He should have known he didn't have the talent back there and avoided putting them out there on an island.
Hector m Rivera
The other side of Knowles is that he had a top 10 ranked defense all season. It you dissect the numbers from the game, Knowles’ game plan worked very well in the first half. They held the nation’s top rushing offense to just 10 rushing yards. The two TDs were busted plays by the DBs. Ohio State’s offense failed to score the points needed to keep Michigan one dimensional. What happened on Saturday is 100% on Day. Yes, the wheels came off the defense in the second half, but unlike last year, Ohio State should have scored points on every drive. You can’t let a team like Michigan stay within three points give how well the defense was playing and the offense came out smoking. After the opening drive TD, Day started calling plays that haven’t worked all season and weren’t called in the initial TD.
Shatinkycat1
Playig against challenged offenses does not make you top ten. We played one good offensive team in Maryland. And they tore us up. We made Michigan into top offensive team. And the DBs have been horrible when tested. The play that changed the game was the missed tackle. Busted plays by the DBs! Yeah! The bucks didn't adjust when Michigan started throwing the ball. Yes, day and another horrible day calling plays. I agree plays were called that didn't work. 3 points in the second half is pathetic. I hope day fires himself next year as the lead play caller. Enough blame to go all around. We have the talent all over on the side offensive side, we we don't on the defensive side.
Hector m Rivera
Knowles is too arrogant to adjust from his philosophy.
F the roster i have, i'm going to fit these square pegs into these round holes no matter what
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.
I realize this may not be a very popular opinion and maybe it's just the disappointment talking but I honestly think Day is a Big 12 coach who hired a Big 12 D coordinator. Which is fine as long as you're playing Indiana. However. In the BIG you're going to have to play in weather and you're going to face smash mouth teams eventually. My beloved Buckeyes just don't seem cut out for that.
CH37
^ Amen
Someone referencing Bryson Shaw...he made a bunch of plays for USC Saturday night so maybe....it wasn't all on him, eh?
Go Bucks!
Stock up:
Oline play against UM. Linebacker play all year.
embarrassed by all the poor takes that we should fire Day and/or Knowles, or that we should have hired Fickell.
Harbaugh has been a head coach for years. Day is learning on the job.
1 Defense was lost
2 CJ is soft and afraid to run and when he does, he goes down 5-10 yards before a defender is close or runs out of bounds
3 The DB's look like Kerry was coaching them. Not turning their head
3 The offense is so predicable based on formations and with no threat of a QB run
4 Not sure what will happen here next year
Stock Down: Coach Ryan Day
The Officiating these days coddles Quarterbacks. You cannot really hit the quarterback, seemingly, without getting a roughing the passer or unnecessary roughness call. The old days of giving the QB a good POP are over. Sheeszh, you touch Brady and they call a penalty!!!
Plus, just about every quarterback these days runs from traffic or for a gain and then SLIDES to avoid getting hit. This is how the game is today! EVERYBODY does this.
Given this, it is INSANITY that Coach Day did not recognize this and EXPLOIT it
INSTEAD he says he is afraid of his fragile QB taking a hit. They didn’t even TRY! If he tried to run and got hit sliding, a penalty would most likely have been called adding to the gain. Isn’t that PLAYING Football? Take advantage of what you are given.
What a waste of talent and playing the game how it is Officiated these days.
PacificCoastBuckeye
It’s a dead conclusion, Stroud can run, he just doesn’t want to. I’ll give Knowles a pass, because Day is supposed to put up points, and let the D rest. The Buckeyes can light up Akron, Iowa, etc, but when we play someone with decent talent we can’t run. From here on out idc about how many receivers we get in recruiting. That shit didn’t help us one bit this year against quality opponents. Shit MHJ is already ready learning from his dad.
It doesn’t make sense always being in the top three in recruiting but we don’t do shit with it
I have faith corrections will be made..from here on out it’s win everything. Most of all, win the offseason.
Long live the brotherhood
I have faith corrections will be made..from here on out it’s win everything. Most of all, win the offseason.
Long live the brotherhood
calling it now if Day loses again next year gene smith is getting Mike vrabel to Columbus asap
Olave to the Lions please
Always trying to be positive! We have an elite group coming back next year. With that said, no team can win with a QB that doesn't run. CJ is probably one of the most accurate throwers I have ever seen, but if if you can't run , you will not win.
John
Maybe corum being out was the best thing to happen to scum. Would those gift touchdowns have happened if they just ran the ball? Against msu scum had to kick field goal after field goal. Maybe we would have scratched out a 27-24 win. Our secondary was handing out Xmas present tds like freaking Santa Claus.
Banks of olentangy
Any team would have scored on those db mistakes by us. Akron, Indiana, rutgers, wouldn’t have mattered. Anyone could have made those throws and anyone could have caught them. Just a horrible performance.
Banks of olentangy
Fuck Ryan Day
Pains me to ever give Desmond credit for anything, but he was right in saying IL had a better defense than OSU.
Thing that sucks is that if the DBs had just gotten a decent amount better as the year went on then even if the Buckeyes lose on Saturday it's far more respectable... I get that it's a young group and depth was a concern because of transfers... But c'mon man... how could the secondary still be this bad?
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
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