At this point it does not appear there's a plug and play type of player for the Buckeyes, I know with spring ball transfers that could change. Interested to see if they start looking at guys with 2-3 years of eligibility as depth/developmental pieces this year and hopefully starters moving forward if they see someone with the potential.
So how is it we struggle so much with the portal while ttun cleans up? Second year in a row they land a top center, this time the guy from Stanford. Yes, we had Luke last year but this year the opportunity was wide open. The Stanford guy was ranked in the top 10 of all centers last year.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
1-specific to the OL which is what you referenced, they've won the last 2 Joe Moore awards as the top OL in the country. Sherrone Moore is doing work up there and it's OK to acknowledge he's a good coach who kids want to play for.
2-Maybe their recruiting hasn't been the greatest which allows for a quicker path to the field than what the Buckeyes are offering up front.
The main reason, I think, is that Michigan has not recruited particularly well and has to go to the portal. So their sales pitch has to be better at that point.
That said, OSU has really only struggled in the portal this year that I recall. With CB and the OT needs they have. Before that they got the guys they were interested in but for the most part the roster was mostly guys recruited or walk ons. Which seems to be their preference. The developed here motto.
I will say that OSU not being able to get a high end CB or OT has been a head scratcher for me. I am not saying five star just another high end guy. Alot of the teams they are fighting with have NIL and such.
I also think because of the recruiting situation Michigan has more resources thrown at the portal and I am not clear OSU does.
In 2020 they finished 10th in the rankings. 2021 they were 13th. 2022 they were 9th. 2023 they are 17th. Yes, not Ohio State level but not exactly falling off the cliff.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
There’s a big drop off traditionally when you get outside of the top 5 I believe. Someone has to be 6, 7, 8, but it doesn’t mean they’re any closer to #1-#5 than they are to 20-25.
I’d also argue there’s more parity when you remove the WR rankings from Ohio State. The respective 2020 OL classes are closer than you’d think. UM didn’t get a PJ type player and only took 4 (opposed to OSUs 5) but OL recruits 2-4 are on par with OSU’s 2-4. And OSUs 5th OL recruit isn’t likely to see PT.
If you have to take away our best then take away their best or you’re just stacking the deck. Hey let’s take away the d line commits for A&M and see what their class looks like…..what’s the point
I think it's fair to keep that issue in mind. Our WRs have been the best position group in the class for several classes in a row. That makes us overloaded at that position and underloaded at other positions relative to our overall per player rating.MI doesn't have a position group like that. You can't ignore that we have the best group of receivers in the country. But you also can't ignore that outside of QBs we have no other position group where we are anywhere near as strong.
Simple …. UM recruits terribly , and has proven….. when you build your team EXCLUSIVELY off the transfer portal , you will never be a match for teams outside of the B1G ….. I mean hell … they havent won a bowl game since 2016
Why do y'all think Jimmy is looking at the NFL every year? He's not good at recruiting and doesn't like it and the rankings show that.
Without winners there wouldn't be any gosh darn civilization. We make no apologies for winning or for aiming our entire program toward that goal. - Woody Hayes
The paradigm shift we all need to embrace is that the portal is now a vital part of recruiting. The portal allows you to spot fill holes in your roster. Transfers provide immediate help and depth, especially on the OL and DL. The portal giveth and it taketh away but Ohio State’s not really experienced either side of it compared to schools than have had double digit defections. Many of those are unexpected surprises and by the time they hit, it’s nearly impossible to replace them with quality high schoolers. Or a commit defects, like Kayin Lee, who decommitted two weeks before JK Johnson went into the portal, which put Ohio State in immediate need of grabbing a CB through the portal (and people freaked out when we didn’t).
People need to move on comparing only high school recruiting classes when transfers are much more likely to have an immediate impact. Which would people rather have: a transfer who starts for two years or a reserve recruited out of high school who leaves after two years?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Iowa - you nailed it. Like it or not there are now two components to recruiting. Roster management now includes both of those as well as accounting for kids that leave the program.
Nobody is rejecting the transfer portal … what EYE am saying is building your team EXCLUSIVELY off the transfer portal will give you a one way ticket to losses outside the conference , and what happens when the transfer portal doesnt work for a year or 2 ? OSU struck out with the transfer portal but still has talent to work with , if UM misses a transfer class what happens? They suffer tremendously, thats my issue im pointing out
A team needing multiple guys to come in and start isn’t a good sign that your development is going well. Harbaugh is a coach that is essentially on a year to year basis so he wants to win quick because he might be in the NFL the next year. That’s why their recruiting sucks and they hit the portal hard. That’s not a goal to strive for. He’s building a bomb that will explode for the next coach.
As far as roster goes, our team is more talented. They do have some advantages though. Bottom line, I think if we didn’t have to sell out as much on defense to stop what they have upfront, we would handle them. That obviously has not been the case the past two seasons, and they have hit it big. Biggest need in that matchup is more dominant defensive tackle play. We haven’t had it. And it has caused us to fly linebackers and safeties into the box like we shouldn’t have to do.
Clifton - I’m not trying to be argumentative but I don’t think Ohio State “had” to do that in 2022’s version of The Game. Which makes it even more maddening that Knowles did it anyways.
yeah, could be. I do know Michigan is very strong up front on offense, so I’m trying to rationalize why we were flying everybody up in the box like we were. Only thing I can think of is that he thought there was a mismatch and we couldn’t handle it on the interior. It was so bizarre the risks we took.
They continue to recruit. Prior to this year they had three straight classes that averaged just about top 10. That is NOT terrible recruiting. It simply isn't at the level of the "elite" top 5 or so, So what options do they have? They supplement from the portal. Adding free agents to the players you draft is a very proven model in the NFL. What is the world makes you so convinced this will lead to clusterfuckery. The only thing we know for sure is that it has led to back to back wins over us. As long as they continue to recruit reasonably well - and continue to win at a high level, I think this is a very sustainable model.
You are so wedded to your position on this that you are looking at a team has beaten us twice in a row, won the BiG title two years in a row, and played in the National Championship series two years in a row and actually finding fault with whatever they are doing?
Reminds me of an old saying: “he who refuses to learn from the past is doomed to learn from the past.” Ohio State doesn’t have to adopt what Michigan’s doing but based on their results, we have no right to dismiss it as a viable strategy.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I believe ttun has 3/5 of their oline coming back, will plug in a top 10 center, have both rb's and the qb back next year. not sure about their wr's. they also have most of their defense coming back. the game is going to be a slobberknocker next year. knowles has to deliver a better defense next year or we could get boat raced as we are breaking in a new qb. must win that game. most important game on the schedule.
Lol. Kinda early for this right? We don't know if Jim will be at Green acres by then and their injury luck finally ended with Corum. They still have no Wr talent and clearly are below Ga, OSU, Bama I'm talent. I do agree we need to see a gives no shit Day from the Peach bowl from spring day one. His job depends on it.
They have beaten us twice in a row and scored over 80 points in doing so. Outside of the WR and QB rooms the Buckeyes had no talent advantage over Michigan. Now.....until proven otherwise, the talent advantage in the QB room remains to be seen. Let's lay the "OSU talent advantage" vs. Michigan to rest. It's embarrassing to read.
Data? High school talent evaluations are what you base your argument on and so do a lot of people. It is one data point. I am choosing what I see on the field and moreover, what the scoreboard says. You use your "data"......I'll use mine. IF the talent evaluation is truly correct, then you must also be of the opinion that every coach on this team not named Brian Hartline should be gone, don't you, especially since the talent gap is so vast? Like the Jack Nicholson meme says.....some of you "Can't Handle the Truth."
I'd say OSU was equally talented as Georgia, 13. If the Buckeyes were more talented, they would have won the game....especially if you agree that the coaches called a good game.
You’re viewpoint about TTUN having more talent than Ohio State is not accurate. Eye test is subjective and flawed with built in biases.
‘Since you’re evaluating talent, how are you evaluating TTUN bench players that didn’t have an impact on the game? You did say that TTUN has more talent, so that included bench players.
If you are directing that at me, 76, I never said -- or I sure as hell never meant to say that TTUN has more talent than Ohio State. What I am refuting is the notion that the Buckeyes have more talent in the starting 22 than Michigan has. I think we have more than enough evidence to back that up no matter what the high school talent evals said. So, no, I do not believe they "out talent" the Buckeyes. I am simply doubling down on the opposite belief.
He did say outside of the QB and WR room. I have no idea how they calculate those numbers but I suspect the gap would be much smaller with out those guys in the calculation.
OSU does have a talent advantage over Michigan. I am not sure that it can be argued otherwise, but that does not always mean you win all the time. Just edges things in your favor.
For instance, OSU was far more injured everywhere last year than Michigan was. And they honestly had that game won.
The points, IMO, do not matter as much as making plays to put the team in position to win. If you win 47-46 it is still a win in my books against a quality opponent. I rather it be 47-0 but we do not always get what we want.
OSU's QB room has been much better than Michigan's. This year is potentially the only exception to that with McCarthy being experienced but unless he improves alot and Michigan relies on him more he was fairly inconsistent against everyone not named OSU.
It wasn’t like his game against OSU was some master work. All his receiving yards were to receivers with nobody within 30 yards because our DBs fell down.
Ohio State had a massive talent advantage at nearly every position. Ohio State’s DL was even better than their OL.
However, when you can just throw the ball blindly in the air to wide open receivers it skews things a bit but Ohio State was clearly more talented. Which makes sense because they are
OSU controlled and should have beaten Georgia. Michigan would not compete. At the highest level its clear OSU has a talent edge. Coaching and playing with fear? That's different.
Edge - 100%. Michigan vs. Georgia would have been a lot closer than Georgia/TCU but I’m not convinced that game is any closer than Michigan/Georgia Orange Bowl from the year prior.
knowles has to deliver a better defense next year or we could get boat raced as we are breaking in a new qb. must win that game. most important game on the schedule.
I'm not particularly focused on what Michigan has coming back. TCU showed, and frankly OSU's game against UGA showed, that what's happened the last two years against Michigan was much less about them and way more about OSU not showing up against them mentally for whatever reason. You can't convince me that TCU has a significantly better offense than OSU's the last two years, and yet both years OSU had made it look that way when they played Michigan.
To me what talent Michigan has is way less relevent than OSU needing to work through whatever this mental block has been when it comes to the TTUN. OSU is inarguably the 3rd most talented team in the country behind UGA and Alabama. Michigan shouldn't be giving them fits the way they have been. That's more of the issue here, not who's playing on Michigan's OL.
Lmfao boat raced? Who even says that. Who cares who they return, which isn't as much as you're saying anyways. You're kidding yourself if you think scUM is more talented than us.
This back and forth banter above was some seriously funny ass shit....
TTUN is NOT more talented, and it's not even close... However, they are MUCH more driven and motivated to beat OSU, and that hasn't even been close despite these fun excuses about "controlling" the line of scrimmage, but yet losing by 20+ points!!! (I like Klatt, too, but even he said the scoreboard is all that matters in spite of doing better than getting owned in 2021...)
Ppl, they're in control of the rivalry. It's Day and Co. job to turn it around. It starts with them...period!
DV me if your finger clicks make ya feel better, but...42 to 27 and 45 to 23 sure look pretty shitty to me. I don't know what more DATA ya require to convince your big brain that this is bad. They are in control...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Not more talented than us - you are right. Not even close - don't think you are right about this one.. The post that started this said outside of QB and WR. So look there. They have the best oline in the country. Using all Big 10 team selection by both the coaches and the media - all three of their interior linemen were rated higher than all three of ours, and one of their OTs was rated on a par with Jones. All taken together I's say online is one area where they are actually better. Same with TEs. They had several playing this year and likely all were better than any of ours. Certainly our are not clearly better. Blake Corum was way better than any of our backs this year, and it's possible that Edwards was too. Summing all this up I'd say that the OP was right. Except for QB and WR they were probably better across the board on offense. Not going to go position by position on defense, but I'd say it was pretty much a draw when it comes to first, second or third team all Big 10 team recognition. So, no, it is not at all correct to say they are not even close.
Your reading comprehension needs some work, dude. That bit of snark aside, I agree with your last paragraph. It is spot on and right now Jim Harbaugh is living rent free in Ryan Day's head.
Interview with Vic Cutler on THE Podcast today. Vic is very well spoken and appears to have a good head on his shoulders. Wants to go to PT school after his football career is over. Said the staff sold him on coming in to play center. He is originally from Detroit and says he was raised to hate Ohio State, but now he says he’s a Buckeye for life and when it comes time to play the team up north, he wants to beat ‘em. Great interview.
Interesting that they see him at center. Apparently, Jakob James will remain more of a guard. Also, thought his description of his playing career and his story of being a late riser makes a lot of sense. Let's hope Frye just discovered a diamond in the rough.
“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” - Urban Meyer
I think him playing center lends credence to the theory that Jackson is going to kick out to LT, and that we’re looking at a starting line of Jackson, Vimahi, Cutler, Jones, Fryar from left to right.
Tinfoil hat theory: Knowing that they told Cutler, a guy who started every game at LT last year, that they wanted him a center, I can’t help but wonder if they were selling the center spot to the other “tackle” targets they whiffed on and that contributed to the whiffing. But who knows, maybe they were really looking for guys to play tackle and just simply whiffled.
I think there are multiple lineup scenarios that will be explored this spring. I don't believe they want to move Jackson to LT and only will if he's determined to be by far the best option. Having Jones and now Cutler does give them more flexibility at IOL, at least.
Agreed, this spring will be huge for a number of guys and the staff will have some tough decisions to make. It isn't as simple as a LT vs another LT for the open spot. Jackson, Jones, and Fryar are the only penciled in starters in my mind but even their positions are not set in stone.
Jones can be C or RG, Jackson can play LG or LT, Fryar could be RT or LT. It all depends on how well guys like Michalski (LT), Cutler (LG/C/RG), James (LG/C/RG), and Vimahi (LG/RG) perform at their respective positions.
My best guess as of today would be Michalski, Jackson, Jones, Vimahi, Fryar
Maybe. But it could simply mean they lacked faith in James. He's listed at 6'3". There was little chance of him playing OT at the highest college level. So targeting him for center says nothing to me about Jackson. RIght back in the thread right after his commitment was announced I speculated we could be looking at him for C. That always made the most sense with him.
I think the coaches look at each spot and determine if there’s TWO guys on the roster ready to compete. If not then they look to the portal to find a second guy. I think James is fully ready to compete at center but they’d have to move jones there to have 2 guys. Now they can keep jones at guard and feel good while having 2 guys at center and feel good. Wypler leaving was unexpected I think. I think they are comfortable at right tackle with fryar and others. I think Michalski is ready to compete at left tackle but might be uneasy about who the 2nd guy is so that’s why they offered 4 portal tackles but none wanted to compete.
I think this is an excellent point of view. It is entirely possible the staff believes it already has a really solid left tackle option in Michalski, but behind him is a giant Bosa-shrug. It would make sense in that scenario that they'd be searching for a portal option, but telling them, "hey, we're dangerously thin at left tackle. Come here and you'll have an immediate chance to start, but we do have a guy we like, so it'll be a competition, and you'll have to earn it." If everyone else is guaranteeing them the job already, we become much less appealing. But if the staff actually does like Zen, it's best to be honest with our portal options and avoid the potential cancer straight-up lying to them could cause.
I still think he is a roster improvement piece that may or may not start. I think the staff has a pretty good handle on what their roster is going to look like. Numbers wise for all we know a guy like Toutant and/or Leroux could be out the door. I think the office of line will continue to be evaluated throughout spring practice and they could add somebody else who could be a plug and play guy. Either way, I imagine the roster got better with this move. I don’t think even the coaching staff fully knows what the starting lineup will look like come next September.
I think where it could be a possibility is yes it's a position of need (potential lack of top end talent/zero depth) but they're not necessarily bringing him over top of the Burke/Hancock and would essentially be a piece of the '22 recruiting class with 2-3 years of eligibility left. Bringing him in shouldn't upset the apple cart with any of the players here.
Michalski is going to be afforded every opportunity to win the LT position. It doesn't make sense to move Jackson to LT, unless the guy's competing are not going to hold up, but remember, there will be growing pains breaking in a new LT. Keeping the interior of your OL strong is extremely important to the success of any offense. I think the staff was not expecting Wypler to declare, and when he did it left them with a hole at center. They don't feel comfortable with the other options at C, so they bring in Cutler who has 21 career starts (4 at C) to shore the interior of the OL.
You need to be humble or you will get humbled. - Jocko Willink
Yea, I think a lot of people look at starting o-line spots like they're just moving people around in a video game. Jackson is a dominant guard in college football, and while I am sure he'd be a serviceable left tackle, he isn't going to be better at that spot than he is at his more natural position. So let's say Jackson is a marginally better tackle than Michalski. He still isn't going to be Paris Johnson. So is it really worth moving Jackson and getting worse at two positions (LT AND LG), rather than simply having a slightly larger drop-off at a single position (LT), and allowing Jackson to continue to improve at guard?
Our QB has to have someone reliable at LT to protect his blind side. Whoever blocks JT and Sawyer the best in practice will be the guy. I hope it's Michalski for the reason you just said but wouldn't be surprised if Jackson is better
When you say natural position that would be LT. Jackson played LT all through high school and he was moved to guard because of his height. He is probably more comfortable at the tackle spot than the guard spot even after starting there for a year. That was the case with PJ this past year.
A lot of guys, including some centers, played OT in HS because they happened to be the biggest and/or most talented player on the line at their school. I don't think there's any question that Jackson could play OT at OSU, I think the question is whether it's worth moving him from a position he likely projects best to in college/NFL and is already playing at an elite level at.
PJJ always projected as an OT, there just wasn't a spot for him there in 2021. Jackson was always projected to be an OG at OSU, with the understanding he may be able to play OT too if needed. I just view those as distinct situations.
I don't think there's any question that Jackson could play OT at OSU, I think the question is whether it's worth moving him from a position he likely projects best to in college/NFL and is already playing at an elite level at.
Yes, thank you. That is exactly what I meant. Could Jackson make the move to tackle and be a more-than-serviceable option? Sure. It certainly seems that way. But moving him to tackle is absolutely not the same thing as Paris moving back out to tackle after he dabbled at guard. Johnson was a tackle prospect through and through, who looked like he had been developed in a lab assigned to create NFL left tackles. Jackson isn't that guy. And while his arm length and athleticism could allow him to make the move in pinch, he will always be better suited to play guard. So the question becomes is the theoretical upgrade from Mickalski to Jackson at LT worth the clear downgrade it will generate from Jackson to whoever is behind him at guard?
Putting the best player at each individual spot may not be the best combination of players when looking at depth and how they work together. They will mix and match til it makes sense.
Yep. The oline, more than any other group on a football tea, has to play as a unit. So inidividual skills will matter the most, but they will dsefinitely look for unit cohesion and which combination clicks the best.
Contrary opinion, but I bet Donovan Jackson kicks out to Tackle. Dude has a 6'11" wingspan, insane strength, and is a freak athlete. By far our most talented offensive lineman, Jackson has all the makings of an elite tackle. He will make a lot more money in the NFL being able to play both positions.
I would much rather Zen Michalski be our backup swing tackle, because there is zero depth behind him.
He was drawing comparisons to Trent Williams with his wingspan and athleticism if he ever bumped out to tackle. Bahktiari is also a 6’3 LT with a huge wingspan so it’s not like it can’t be done. I agree with you on the strength being the interior of oline. Its the inverse of ‘21.
Clicking through to those profiles is a good reminder that for a lot of these guys people have been down on because they haven't played, we’d be thrilled if they were a ‘24 recruit committing
TIFIW but he does do a decent job of video evaluation but yesterday Zach Smith watched full game tape of Vic Cutler, said this is a helluva portal get for Bucks as this kid will make a heckuva center, I guess he played some center a couple seasons ago so that’s good too. Bucks have done pretty well in the portal I think sans a true left tackle…
Same. Probably also not a popular take, but the way the media handled it and blasted him made it look worse. Dana slaps his wife and is still all over TV and no one questions his credibility. Zach gets fired from being a coach and now his brains made of stone. The guy's sharp man. Not that i believe everything he says, but he definitely speaks on football at a high level.
I take PFF as a portion of what a player is really made of, but what matters most is how they do in the big games and not allowing any pressures as a tackle vs Bama is all I needed to hear. I think he'll fit our downhill blocking style Frye is going to run in '23 as well, I've been waiting for us to run it down peoples throats for awhile, it also helps the younger lineman.
I think it’s speculative because that’s predominately what Frye has run compared to Wilson who prefers outside zone. I don’t believe it’s been reported anywhere that’s what’s going to happen. Just connecting dots.
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At this point it does not appear there's a plug and play type of player for the Buckeyes, I know with spring ball transfers that could change. Interested to see if they start looking at guys with 2-3 years of eligibility as depth/developmental pieces this year and hopefully starters moving forward if they see someone with the potential.
Beat scUM
This is normal! Most years there are maybe 10-15 kids who could help Ohio State right away.
So how is it we struggle so much with the portal while ttun cleans up? Second year in a row they land a top center, this time the guy from Stanford. Yes, we had Luke last year but this year the opportunity was wide open. The Stanford guy was ranked in the top 10 of all centers last year.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
1-specific to the OL which is what you referenced, they've won the last 2 Joe Moore awards as the top OL in the country. Sherrone Moore is doing work up there and it's OK to acknowledge he's a good coach who kids want to play for.
2-Maybe their recruiting hasn't been the greatest which allows for a quicker path to the field than what the Buckeyes are offering up front.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Because we're not going to replace half the roster with portal rejects?
Upon us all, a little rain must fall
The main reason, I think, is that Michigan has not recruited particularly well and has to go to the portal. So their sales pitch has to be better at that point.
That said, OSU has really only struggled in the portal this year that I recall. With CB and the OT needs they have. Before that they got the guys they were interested in but for the most part the roster was mostly guys recruited or walk ons. Which seems to be their preference. The developed here motto.
I will say that OSU not being able to get a high end CB or OT has been a head scratcher for me. I am not saying five star just another high end guy. Alot of the teams they are fighting with have NIL and such.
I also think because of the recruiting situation Michigan has more resources thrown at the portal and I am not clear OSU does.
In 2020 they finished 10th in the rankings. 2021 they were 13th. 2022 they were 9th. 2023 they are 17th. Yes, not Ohio State level but not exactly falling off the cliff.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
That’s what we say about other teams but if that was osu rankings it would be the cliff talk no doubt.
There’s a big drop off traditionally when you get outside of the top 5 I believe. Someone has to be 6, 7, 8, but it doesn’t mean they’re any closer to #1-#5 than they are to 20-25.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
I’d also argue there’s more parity when you remove the WR rankings from Ohio State. The respective 2020 OL classes are closer than you’d think. UM didn’t get a PJ type player and only took 4 (opposed to OSUs 5) but OL recruits 2-4 are on par with OSU’s 2-4. And OSUs 5th OL recruit isn’t likely to see PT.
If you have to take away our best then take away their best or you’re just stacking the deck. Hey let’s take away the d line commits for A&M and see what their class looks like…..what’s the point
I think it's fair to keep that issue in mind. Our WRs have been the best position group in the class for several classes in a row. That makes us overloaded at that position and underloaded at other positions relative to our overall per player rating.MI doesn't have a position group like that. You can't ignore that we have the best group of receivers in the country. But you also can't ignore that outside of QBs we have no other position group where we are anywhere near as strong.
Simple …. UM recruits terribly , and has proven….. when you build your team EXCLUSIVELY off the transfer portal , you will never be a match for teams outside of the B1G ….. I mean hell … they havent won a bowl game since 2016
Why do y'all think Jimmy is looking at the NFL every year? He's not good at recruiting and doesn't like it and the rankings show that.
Without winners there wouldn't be any gosh darn civilization. We make no apologies for winning or for aiming our entire program toward that goal. - Woody Hayes
But...sleepovers!
You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!
The paradigm shift we all need to embrace is that the portal is now a vital part of recruiting. The portal allows you to spot fill holes in your roster. Transfers provide immediate help and depth, especially on the OL and DL. The portal giveth and it taketh away but Ohio State’s not really experienced either side of it compared to schools than have had double digit defections. Many of those are unexpected surprises and by the time they hit, it’s nearly impossible to replace them with quality high schoolers. Or a commit defects, like Kayin Lee, who decommitted two weeks before JK Johnson went into the portal, which put Ohio State in immediate need of grabbing a CB through the portal (and people freaked out when we didn’t).
People need to move on comparing only high school recruiting classes when transfers are much more likely to have an immediate impact. Which would people rather have: a transfer who starts for two years or a reserve recruited out of high school who leaves after two years?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Iowa - you nailed it. Like it or not there are now two components to recruiting. Roster management now includes both of those as well as accounting for kids that leave the program.
Nobody is rejecting the transfer portal … what EYE am saying is building your team EXCLUSIVELY off the transfer portal will give you a one way ticket to losses outside the conference , and what happens when the transfer portal doesnt work for a year or 2 ? OSU struck out with the transfer portal but still has talent to work with , if UM misses a transfer class what happens? They suffer tremendously, thats my issue im pointing out
A team needing multiple guys to come in and start isn’t a good sign that your development is going well. Harbaugh is a coach that is essentially on a year to year basis so he wants to win quick because he might be in the NFL the next year. That’s why their recruiting sucks and they hit the portal hard. That’s not a goal to strive for. He’s building a bomb that will explode for the next coach.
You may be right, bull. But for now, that "bomb" is blowing up the rest of the Big Ten two years running.
Short term gains for long term clusterfuckery. Let them enjoy this little run because that’s all it is.
Bull has 2 downvotes but he’s absolutely correct. Watch Ohio State vs. Georgia & Michigan vs. TCU. Which one seemed sustainable?
As far as roster goes, our team is more talented. They do have some advantages though. Bottom line, I think if we didn’t have to sell out as much on defense to stop what they have upfront, we would handle them. That obviously has not been the case the past two seasons, and they have hit it big. Biggest need in that matchup is more dominant defensive tackle play. We haven’t had it. And it has caused us to fly linebackers and safeties into the box like we shouldn’t have to do.
Clifton - I’m not trying to be argumentative but I don’t think Ohio State “had” to do that in 2022’s version of The Game. Which makes it even more maddening that Knowles did it anyways.
yeah, could be. I do know Michigan is very strong up front on offense, so I’m trying to rationalize why we were flying everybody up in the box like we were. Only thing I can think of is that he thought there was a mismatch and we couldn’t handle it on the interior. It was so bizarre the risks we took.
I agree 100%, “Bizarre” is the perfect word for it.
I also think that game is what made Ryan Day decide he needed to be more hands on with the defense and relinquish play calling duties.
Dup
Watching two games says nothing about sustainability.
They continue to recruit. Prior to this year they had three straight classes that averaged just about top 10. That is NOT terrible recruiting. It simply isn't at the level of the "elite" top 5 or so, So what options do they have? They supplement from the portal. Adding free agents to the players you draft is a very proven model in the NFL. What is the world makes you so convinced this will lead to clusterfuckery. The only thing we know for sure is that it has led to back to back wins over us. As long as they continue to recruit reasonably well - and continue to win at a high level, I think this is a very sustainable model.
You are so wedded to your position on this that you are looking at a team has beaten us twice in a row, won the BiG title two years in a row, and played in the National Championship series two years in a row and actually finding fault with whatever they are doing?
Reminds me of an old saying: “he who refuses to learn from the past is doomed to learn from the past.” Ohio State doesn’t have to adopt what Michigan’s doing but based on their results, we have no right to dismiss it as a viable strategy.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I believe ttun has 3/5 of their oline coming back, will plug in a top 10 center, have both rb's and the qb back next year. not sure about their wr's. they also have most of their defense coming back. the game is going to be a slobberknocker next year. knowles has to deliver a better defense next year or we could get boat raced as we are breaking in a new qb. must win that game. most important game on the schedule.
Big B
Lol. Kinda early for this right? We don't know if Jim will be at Green acres by then and their injury luck finally ended with Corum. They still have no Wr talent and clearly are below Ga, OSU, Bama I'm talent. I do agree we need to see a gives no shit Day from the Peach bowl from spring day one. His job depends on it.
No more fear coaching.
Adam Meyers-White is inappropriate to write.
They have beaten us twice in a row and scored over 80 points in doing so. Outside of the WR and QB rooms the Buckeyes had no talent advantage over Michigan. Now.....until proven otherwise, the talent advantage in the QB room remains to be seen. Let's lay the "OSU talent advantage" vs. Michigan to rest. It's embarrassing to read.
Be careful. The truth can do this to a person.
You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever.
You don’t look at data to validate your viewpoint, do you?
https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
Data? High school talent evaluations are what you base your argument on and so do a lot of people. It is one data point. I am choosing what I see on the field and moreover, what the scoreboard says. You use your "data"......I'll use mine. IF the talent evaluation is truly correct, then you must also be of the opinion that every coach on this team not named Brian Hartline should be gone, don't you, especially since the talent gap is so vast? Like the Jack Nicholson meme says.....some of you "Can't Handle the Truth."
I guess wins and losses against rivals aren't valid 'data points'?
You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever.
Nut - Ohio State was more talented than Georgia when on the field together. I think the coaching staff is doing just fine.,,
I'd say OSU was equally talented as Georgia, 13. If the Buckeyes were more talented, they would have won the game....especially if you agree that the coaches called a good game.
While I disagree that the more talented team always wins this is a fair statement. +1
You’re viewpoint about TTUN having more talent than Ohio State is not accurate. Eye test is subjective and flawed with built in biases.
‘Since you’re evaluating talent, how are you evaluating TTUN bench players that didn’t have an impact on the game? You did say that TTUN has more talent, so that included bench players.
If you are directing that at me, 76, I never said -- or I sure as hell never meant to say that TTUN has more talent than Ohio State. What I am refuting is the notion that the Buckeyes have more talent in the starting 22 than Michigan has. I think we have more than enough evidence to back that up no matter what the high school talent evals said. So, no, I do not believe they "out talent" the Buckeyes. I am simply doubling down on the opposite belief.
He did say outside of the QB and WR room. I have no idea how they calculate those numbers but I suspect the gap would be much smaller with out those guys in the calculation.
OSU does have a talent advantage over Michigan. I am not sure that it can be argued otherwise, but that does not always mean you win all the time. Just edges things in your favor.
For instance, OSU was far more injured everywhere last year than Michigan was. And they honestly had that game won.
The points, IMO, do not matter as much as making plays to put the team in position to win. If you win 47-46 it is still a win in my books against a quality opponent. I rather it be 47-0 but we do not always get what we want.
OSU's QB room has been much better than Michigan's. This year is potentially the only exception to that with McCarthy being experienced but unless he improves alot and Michigan relies on him more he was fairly inconsistent against everyone not named OSU.
It wasn’t like his game against OSU was some master work. All his receiving yards were to receivers with nobody within 30 yards because our DBs fell down.
Buckeyes…Beets... Battlestar Galactica.
Ohio State had a massive talent advantage at nearly every position. Ohio State’s DL was even better than their OL.
However, when you can just throw the ball blindly in the air to wide open receivers it skews things a bit but Ohio State was clearly more talented. Which makes sense because they are
OSU controlled and should have beaten Georgia. Michigan would not compete. At the highest level its clear OSU has a talent edge. Coaching and playing with fear? That's different.
Adam Meyers-White is inappropriate to write.
Edge - 100%. Michigan vs. Georgia would have been a lot closer than Georgia/TCU but I’m not convinced that game is any closer than Michigan/Georgia Orange Bowl from the year prior.
I'm not particularly focused on what Michigan has coming back. TCU showed, and frankly OSU's game against UGA showed, that what's happened the last two years against Michigan was much less about them and way more about OSU not showing up against them mentally for whatever reason. You can't convince me that TCU has a significantly better offense than OSU's the last two years, and yet both years OSU had made it look that way when they played Michigan.
To me what talent Michigan has is way less relevent than OSU needing to work through whatever this mental block has been when it comes to the TTUN. OSU is inarguably the 3rd most talented team in the country behind UGA and Alabama. Michigan shouldn't be giving them fits the way they have been. That's more of the issue here, not who's playing on Michigan's OL.
Lmfao boat raced? Who even says that. Who cares who they return, which isn't as much as you're saying anyways. You're kidding yourself if you think scUM is more talented than us.
ibleedscarletandgray
No offense, midwest. But the person kidding himself as it relates to that argument....is you.
Keep telling yourself that buddy
ibleedscarletandgray
They are losing a lot on defense. Not sure if the guys they will be replacing them with will be nearly as good.
This back and forth banter above was some seriously funny ass shit....
TTUN is NOT more talented, and it's not even close... However, they are MUCH more driven and motivated to beat OSU, and that hasn't even been close despite these fun excuses about "controlling" the line of scrimmage, but yet losing by 20+ points!!! (I like Klatt, too, but even he said the scoreboard is all that matters in spite of doing better than getting owned in 2021...)
Ppl, they're in control of the rivalry. It's Day and Co. job to turn it around. It starts with them...period!
DV me if your finger clicks make ya feel better, but...42 to 27 and 45 to 23 sure look pretty shitty to me. I don't know what more DATA ya require to convince your big brain that this is bad. They are in control...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Woody Hayes
Not more talented than us - you are right. Not even close - don't think you are right about this one.. The post that started this said outside of QB and WR. So look there. They have the best oline in the country. Using all Big 10 team selection by both the coaches and the media - all three of their interior linemen were rated higher than all three of ours, and one of their OTs was rated on a par with Jones. All taken together I's say online is one area where they are actually better. Same with TEs. They had several playing this year and likely all were better than any of ours. Certainly our are not clearly better. Blake Corum was way better than any of our backs this year, and it's possible that Edwards was too. Summing all this up I'd say that the OP was right. Except for QB and WR they were probably better across the board on offense. Not going to go position by position on defense, but I'd say it was pretty much a draw when it comes to first, second or third team all Big 10 team recognition. So, no, it is not at all correct to say they are not even close.
Your reading comprehension needs some work, dude. That bit of snark aside, I agree with your last paragraph. It is spot on and right now Jim Harbaugh is living rent free in Ryan Day's head.
Interview with Vic Cutler on THE Podcast today. Vic is very well spoken and appears to have a good head on his shoulders. Wants to go to PT school after his football career is over. Said the staff sold him on coming in to play center. He is originally from Detroit and says he was raised to hate Ohio State, but now he says he’s a Buckeye for life and when it comes time to play the team up north, he wants to beat ‘em. Great interview.
I thought so too.
Interesting that they see him at center. Apparently, Jakob James will remain more of a guard. Also, thought his description of his playing career and his story of being a late riser makes a lot of sense. Let's hope Frye just discovered a diamond in the rough.
“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” - Urban Meyer
I think him playing center lends credence to the theory that Jackson is going to kick out to LT, and that we’re looking at a starting line of Jackson, Vimahi, Cutler, Jones, Fryar from left to right.
Tinfoil hat theory: Knowing that they told Cutler, a guy who started every game at LT last year, that they wanted him a center, I can’t help but wonder if they were selling the center spot to the other “tackle” targets they whiffed on and that contributed to the whiffing. But who knows, maybe they were really looking for guys to play tackle and just simply whiffled.
I think there are multiple lineup scenarios that will be explored this spring. I don't believe they want to move Jackson to LT and only will if he's determined to be by far the best option. Having Jones and now Cutler does give them more flexibility at IOL, at least.
Agreed, this spring will be huge for a number of guys and the staff will have some tough decisions to make. It isn't as simple as a LT vs another LT for the open spot. Jackson, Jones, and Fryar are the only penciled in starters in my mind but even their positions are not set in stone.
Jones can be C or RG, Jackson can play LG or LT, Fryar could be RT or LT. It all depends on how well guys like Michalski (LT), Cutler (LG/C/RG), James (LG/C/RG), and Vimahi (LG/RG) perform at their respective positions.
My best guess as of today would be Michalski, Jackson, Jones, Vimahi, Fryar
Yeah, that I would agree is the likely 'default' lineup as of today. Will be interesting to see if it's the same coming out of spring camp.
Absolutely whiffed at OT and this is plan C, nothing against this pickup.
Sani
Sani - Cutler isn’t being brought in as anything other than an interior OL, so I don’t think your first point related at all to your second point.
Also we won’t have any idea if the staff whiffed until we see how Michalski & Fryar play next season.
Maybe. But it could simply mean they lacked faith in James. He's listed at 6'3". There was little chance of him playing OT at the highest college level. So targeting him for center says nothing to me about Jackson. RIght back in the thread right after his commitment was announced I speculated we could be looking at him for C. That always made the most sense with him.
I think the coaches look at each spot and determine if there’s TWO guys on the roster ready to compete. If not then they look to the portal to find a second guy. I think James is fully ready to compete at center but they’d have to move jones there to have 2 guys. Now they can keep jones at guard and feel good while having 2 guys at center and feel good. Wypler leaving was unexpected I think. I think they are comfortable at right tackle with fryar and others. I think Michalski is ready to compete at left tackle but might be uneasy about who the 2nd guy is so that’s why they offered 4 portal tackles but none wanted to compete.
I think this is an excellent point of view. It is entirely possible the staff believes it already has a really solid left tackle option in Michalski, but behind him is a giant Bosa-shrug. It would make sense in that scenario that they'd be searching for a portal option, but telling them, "hey, we're dangerously thin at left tackle. Come here and you'll have an immediate chance to start, but we do have a guy we like, so it'll be a competition, and you'll have to earn it." If everyone else is guaranteeing them the job already, we become much less appealing. But if the staff actually does like Zen, it's best to be honest with our portal options and avoid the potential cancer straight-up lying to them could cause.
That’s my thinking. They want competition at every spot one way or another.
Any truth to the rumor that he is the nephew of Jay Cutler?
If you want to make the world a better place take a look at what Kevin Warren is doing and do the opposite.
I still think he is a roster improvement piece that may or may not start. I think the staff has a pretty good handle on what their roster is going to look like. Numbers wise for all we know a guy like Toutant and/or Leroux could be out the door. I think the office of line will continue to be evaluated throughout spring practice and they could add somebody else who could be a plug and play guy. Either way, I imagine the roster got better with this move. I don’t think even the coaching staff fully knows what the starting lineup will look like come next September.
I think it is going to be Jackson at LG, Jones at RG, and Fryar at RT.
I think the staff hopes that Michalski is the guy at LT and James is the guy at C.
I wouldn’t mind the staff kicking the tires here. 6’2 corner who started for Ole Miss as a Freshman.
https://247sports.com/Player/Davison-Igbinosun-46098934/
Are weakest position on the team. A player who started in the SEC as a Freshman. Could be an upgrade to the #2 corner position.
Check, check, check.
Checks all the box's for me. Unless he was known for being a problem child or wants 5 mil to transfer.
Thefirstcaveman
I think where it could be a possibility is yes it's a position of need (potential lack of top end talent/zero depth) but they're not necessarily bringing him over top of the Burke/Hancock and would essentially be a piece of the '22 recruiting class with 2-3 years of eligibility left. Bringing him in shouldn't upset the apple cart with any of the players here.
A little bit of objectivity can go a long way
Michalski is going to be afforded every opportunity to win the LT position. It doesn't make sense to move Jackson to LT, unless the guy's competing are not going to hold up, but remember, there will be growing pains breaking in a new LT. Keeping the interior of your OL strong is extremely important to the success of any offense. I think the staff was not expecting Wypler to declare, and when he did it left them with a hole at center. They don't feel comfortable with the other options at C, so they bring in Cutler who has 21 career starts (4 at C) to shore the interior of the OL.
You need to be humble or you will get humbled. - Jocko Willink
Yea, I think a lot of people look at starting o-line spots like they're just moving people around in a video game. Jackson is a dominant guard in college football, and while I am sure he'd be a serviceable left tackle, he isn't going to be better at that spot than he is at his more natural position. So let's say Jackson is a marginally better tackle than Michalski. He still isn't going to be Paris Johnson. So is it really worth moving Jackson and getting worse at two positions (LT AND LG), rather than simply having a slightly larger drop-off at a single position (LT), and allowing Jackson to continue to improve at guard?
Our QB has to have someone reliable at LT to protect his blind side. Whoever blocks JT and Sawyer the best in practice will be the guy. I hope it's Michalski for the reason you just said but wouldn't be surprised if Jackson is better
Upon us all, a little rain must fall
Good point. I’m all about players playing at their natural position.
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handey
When you say natural position that would be LT. Jackson played LT all through high school and he was moved to guard because of his height. He is probably more comfortable at the tackle spot than the guard spot even after starting there for a year. That was the case with PJ this past year.
A lot of guys, including some centers, played OT in HS because they happened to be the biggest and/or most talented player on the line at their school. I don't think there's any question that Jackson could play OT at OSU, I think the question is whether it's worth moving him from a position he likely projects best to in college/NFL and is already playing at an elite level at.
PJJ always projected as an OT, there just wasn't a spot for him there in 2021. Jackson was always projected to be an OG at OSU, with the understanding he may be able to play OT too if needed. I just view those as distinct situations.
Yes, thank you. That is exactly what I meant. Could Jackson make the move to tackle and be a more-than-serviceable option? Sure. It certainly seems that way. But moving him to tackle is absolutely not the same thing as Paris moving back out to tackle after he dabbled at guard. Johnson was a tackle prospect through and through, who looked like he had been developed in a lab assigned to create NFL left tackles. Jackson isn't that guy. And while his arm length and athleticism could allow him to make the move in pinch, he will always be better suited to play guard. So the question becomes is the theoretical upgrade from Mickalski to Jackson at LT worth the clear downgrade it will generate from Jackson to whoever is behind him at guard?
Putting the best player at each individual spot may not be the best combination of players when looking at depth and how they work together. They will mix and match til it makes sense.
Yep. The oline, more than any other group on a football tea, has to play as a unit. So inidividual skills will matter the most, but they will dsefinitely look for unit cohesion and which combination clicks the best.
Contrary opinion, but I bet Donovan Jackson kicks out to Tackle. Dude has a 6'11" wingspan, insane strength, and is a freak athlete. By far our most talented offensive lineman, Jackson has all the makings of an elite tackle. He will make a lot more money in the NFL being able to play both positions.
I would much rather Zen Michalski be our backup swing tackle, because there is zero depth behind him.
We are much deeper on the interior too with Enokk Vimahi, Tegra Tshabola, and Victor Cutler ready to play alongside Matt Jones. (Not to mention Ben Christman and Jakob James pushing for playing time as well)
He was drawing comparisons to Trent Williams with his wingspan and athleticism if he ever bumped out to tackle. Bahktiari is also a 6’3 LT with a huge wingspan so it’s not like it can’t be done. I agree with you on the strength being the interior of oline. Its the inverse of ‘21.
A little bit of objectivity can go a long way
Clicking through to those profiles is a good reminder that for a lot of these guys people have been down on because they haven't played, we’d be thrilled if they were a ‘24 recruit committing
TIFIW but he does do a decent job of video evaluation but yesterday Zach Smith watched full game tape of Vic Cutler, said this is a helluva portal get for Bucks as this kid will make a heckuva center, I guess he played some center a couple seasons ago so that’s good too. Bucks have done pretty well in the portal I think sans a true left tackle…
Zach Smith is now my favorite talent evaluator. For now.
Probably not a popular take, but putting all the baggage and other issues aside with Zach, I do enjoy listening to him do player evaluations.
You need to be humble or you will get humbled. - Jocko Willink
Same. Probably also not a popular take, but the way the media handled it and blasted him made it look worse. Dana slaps his wife and is still all over TV and no one questions his credibility. Zach gets fired from being a coach and now his brains made of stone. The guy's sharp man. Not that i believe everything he says, but he definitely speaks on football at a high level.
I take PFF as a portion of what a player is really made of, but what matters most is how they do in the big games and not allowing any pressures as a tackle vs Bama is all I needed to hear. I think he'll fit our downhill blocking style Frye is going to run in '23 as well, I've been waiting for us to run it down peoples throats for awhile, it also helps the younger lineman.
Where did you read about a change in our approach to running the ball?
I think it’s speculative because that’s predominately what Frye has run compared to Wilson who prefers outside zone. I don’t believe it’s been reported anywhere that’s what’s going to happen. Just connecting dots.
A little bit of objectivity can go a long way